Dreamcast VGA TV Compatibility List

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Re: Dreamcast VGA TV Compatibility List

Post#11 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:08 am

Arnold.D wrote:The Sony Bravia KLV-52V550A an older LCD has a vga port on it and works perfectly with the DC.


Thanks. Added.
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Re: Dreamcast VGA TV Compatibility List

Post#12 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:46 am

Is it worth really looking for a tv with a VGA port instead of just getting an upscaler? I thought that upscalers inside tvs only did an adequate job and having a dedicated upscaler gave a better picture.

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Re: Dreamcast VGA TV Compatibility List

Post#13 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:45 am

Plasma Pioneer 4/3 40" PDP-402 : ok
LCD Samsung 32" LE32S81B : ok
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Re: Dreamcast VGA TV Compatibility List

Post#14 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:14 am

K0rN b4LL wrote:Is it worth really looking for a tv with a VGA port instead of just getting an upscaler? I thought that upscalers inside tvs only did an adequate job and having a dedicated upscaler gave a better picture.


TVs generally don't upscale the picture; they just display the native 480p signal from the Dreamcast. Personally I think the fewer upscalers/converters you go through the better. That being said, I don't think it would be worth buying a whole new TV just for a VGA port, but if you're already looking for a new TV, this is a good list to reference.

dreamcast-news wrote:Plasma Pioneer 4/3 40" PDP-402 : ok
LCD Samsung 32" LE32S81B : ok


Added! Thanks!
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Re: Dreamcast VGA TV Compatibility List

Post#15 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:13 am

Panasonic TH-42PH9UK 42" Plasma - comes with a VGA input (as well as component, s-video, and composite) and the picture is beautiful. Made in 2007...I bought one a month ago for $40 off a neighbor. Bonus - the inputs are cards that are interchangeable, and new ones can be had for 10 to 30 bucks off eBay, so you can always add HDMI if desired. It's really more of a monitor though - no built in speakers (but does have outputs for speakers) and no TV tuner.

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Re: Dreamcast VGA TV Compatibility List

Post#16 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:02 pm

Added the Samsung LN32A330 LCD TV as not compatible. The TV won't even switch to the VGA/PC input when the Dreamcast is connected.
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Re: Dreamcast VGA TV Compatibility List

Post#17 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:47 pm

Pioneer Elite PureVision PRO-930HD Plasma works with great.
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Re: Dreamcast VGA TV Compatibility List

Post#18 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:26 am

Hi, new member here, ( so of course I have to type a whole wall of text ) but I just made some big progress with getting my Dreamcast VGA cable going, and didn't find any info out there pertaining to my solution, but I did find a lot of people complaining about their Samsung TVs not working with their Dreamcast VGA cable. So if someone out there posted this up already, I could not find it. Technically I'll call this a "working fix that is 95% there", but I have a couple more things to try in order to possibly fix an issue that is still present.
I have an LCD SAMSUNG LN-46A650 -A1F t.v. with updated firmware flash. This TV accepts 480p through its D-Sub VGA "PC" input. It does not recognize the TOMEE DREAMCAST VGA cable when plugged into the TVs D-Sub VGA "PC" input, whether or not anything is attached or powered up at the other end. I found that if I plug only the TOMEE cable into the D-sub VGA "PC" input on my TV, the "PC" input option will not light up in the TVs "Input Select" menu, and so you cannot select it. I then tested the TVs D-sub input by plugging in only a random PC monitor cable into it with nothing attached to the cable, and the PC input lit up and became selectable, and would stay active with the cable plugged in, and even after removing the cable. I tested my laptop vga output through this cable and the TV displayed that nicely. I actually had two random VGA monitor cables, one 14-pin and one 15 pin, and this all was true with both. Despite those facts, simply removing the monitor cable while the PC input was active, and plugging the TOMEE VGA cable back into the TV would result in the TV not sensing the TOMEE cable and eventually shutting off. I then booted the DC into VGA mode using TOMEE and a spare monitor ( NEC MULTI-SYNC LCD1970GX, which worked really well with the TOMEE direct from the DC) and then moved the TOMEE VGA plug to the TVs D-Sub input while "PC" was still the selected active input on the TV, and could verify that the DC was still running by feeding the sound to another TV input and switching and checking, and hot-swapping cables didn't result in a display either. TV would lose handshake with the cable and it either dispayed an error message, or eventually TV would power down/shut off, I can't remember exactly with that scenario. So, at that point I didn't really dwell long enough on the fact that the TV would not even acknowledge the presence of the TOMEE cable, and got off-track and tried a couple of VGA-to-component transcoder boxes with 480p pass-through, and while that is not the focus of this post, I'll add really quickly that the Monoprice box and the Audio Authority box both had issues with "dark colors are way too dark" and "bright/white colors flickering" respectively. Sent those back and at that point I was running out of ideas. I started thinking about why my TV would not even see the TOMEE VGA cable by itself, which I found odd since it would see the two PC VGA monitor cables that I had tested with. ("PC" input becomes available in the "Input Select" menu when either of those monitor cables were plugged in to the TVs VGA D-Sub input). This difference was really bothering me so I started comparing DC VGA Box schematics to a "regular" PC monitor VGA cable pin-out. I learned that there are actually a few "typical" VGA PC monitor cable pin-outs, but noticed that the VGA Box schematics as well as the most modern PC monitor cable pin-outs were calling for certain pins to be grounded that the TOMEE was not providing ground to.

The DC VGA boxes seem to want pins 5, 6, 7, 8, and 10 grounded, and also 13 & 14 connect to ground through individual diodes.

I tested the TOMEE cable (one lead on the metal trapezoid shroud), and pins 6,7,8 all show continuity to the shroud, but not 5 and 10 like the DC VGA Box diagrams suggest. The diodes are in fact both there through pins 13 and 14 to shroud.

I tested my 14-pin monitor cable, and that has pins 4,6,7,8,10, and 11 showing continuity to the shroud, but not pin 5. (pin 9 missing on this cable, old-school style)

I tested my 15-pin monitor cable, and that has pins 4,6,7,8,10, and 11 showing continuity to the shroud, but not pin 5.
All cables were not plugged into anything while testing.

I started to think that the TV needs to see at least one of those pins that is grounded on the monitor cables, but happen not to be grounded on the TOMEE cable. I learned that having 4 & 11 grounded is some sort of industry-standard signalling technique used between the monitor and the P.C. / video card concerning resolution. DC does not output anything to these pins, so I was not worried about shorting anything from it if I were to plug the DC & TOMEE into the monitor cable and TV. The only thing that was concerning to me was that if I plugged the TOMEE into either of these cables, pin 5 would still not be grounded to the shroud. I learned that this might be the "sync signal" ground. Still not really sure what that is, but I found some indication that it could be run without a ground without too much issue, so I figured I would try my idea out. Of course I did not have a female-to-female metal-bodied vga adaptor to test immediately, so the next day (today) I went out to the store and got one. I got back home and gave this all a 50/50 shot of actually working. First thing I did was plug in the PC VGA monitor cable to the TVs VGA D-sub input and selected the illuminated "PC" input. Then I attached the TOMEE cable using my new female-to-female adaptor to the monitor cable to see if the original "handshake" would somehow now become invalid, but "PC" stayed selected and active. Then I plugged it into the DC and fired it up, and lo and behold, lo and behold. DC to TOMEE to F/F VGA Adaptor to "random PC VGA monitor cable" > SAMSUNG LN46A650 D-Sub input was working! Either of my PC monitor cables worked. At this point I should mention that there is a visual issue, and I'm not sure what is causing it, and also running this TV in PC Mode through the D-Sub somewhat limits your picture adjustment options. You can only adjust backlight brightness, contrast, picture brightness, and pick from a couple color temperatures on top of normal, a couple display modes on top of "standard", and only 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratios are selectable. HOWEVER, once in PC mode, you are able to move the whole picture x or y, and also horizontally stretch the picture ("course " and "fine" screen adjustments), which I did not realize until I got this going. The aspect ratios are still off in 4:3 and 16:9 due to what DC outputs, but it's nice to shrink the full-screen 16:9 horizontally a little so it's not so flat and wide-stretched. Once you do that, the black bars will be uneven on either side, even after moving the whole thing over on the x axis, but no big deal. As far as the visual issue that I mentioned, I do get a weird narrow horizontal bar of "bright fog" in the black bars when very bright things are displayed near them. It also seems to go across the whole screen, but it looks like it is behind the picture almost. If the bright object moves up or down, the horizontal "fog bar" will follow up or down. I don't yet know if the TOMEE cable is causing it, (although it seemed to perform well on my NEC monitor, but maybe I should look at that again), or if my VGA PC monitor cable is poor-quality, or if it is because the pin 5 is still not grounded to the shroud. I'm also not exactly sure why this is now working at all. I suspect that it is because pins 4 & 11 are now grounded, or maybe because pin 10 is now grounded, so I'm trying to find a good VGA cable with 5,6,7,8 and 10 grounded like the DC VGA Box pinouts call for, in addition to the 4/11 ground combo, which I think the TV wants to see. I'm looking at the Startech MXT101MMHQ10 because it sounds like a decent cable and can be found for a decent price in a number of lengths, but can't find a pin-out online, so waiting to hear back from the manufacturers tech support about what pins are actually grounded to the shroud on that cable. Just to note, I'm running sound From TOMEE RCA outs through L & R RCA cables to an RCA-to-3.5mm input jack, and that plugs into the back of my TV, and that sound input is tied to the D-Sub input. If an upgraded monitor-style VGA cable does not improve the "fog band" issue that I have, I'll probably seek out a 3rd party VGA box to replace the TOMEE cable in hopes of that making an improvement. Anyone has any comments or insight on any of this, feel free to post up, and I will also post back with any developments.

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Re: Dreamcast VGA TV Compatibility List

Post#19 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:55 pm

Hi, I was able to do a little more testing on my setup. I use F-355 Challenge, Test Drive Le-Mans, Shenmue 1 & (Shenmue 2 UK PAL with a boot disc) as my "reference material".

First, I went back to running the Dreamcast using only the TOMEE cable directly to the NEC MULTI-SYNC LCD1970GX monitor (this is an older LCD 4:3 display), and that worked out pretty well. The monitor itself has a small shortcoming where depending on the viewing angle, the very edges might get a little brighter on a black screen. Usually top and bottom, but sometimes the sides too. I noticed this even when it was on, but nothing was sending signal to it. When actually playing the Dreamcast on it, I did not see any of the odd hazy artifacts like on my TV. Everything looked really good.

I then put one of my two random monitor cables in the signal path between the TOMEE and the monitor and did not see any degradation. I then swapped it for the other random monitor cable and again did not see any degradation. In all cases with the monitor, I just saw a little brightness around the perimeter sometimes when the image was dark, and also depending on the viewing angle. I also sometimes saw something like screen door effect if you look closely enough, but I think that is not the monitor, but actually something in the Dreamcasts' actual valid signal, perhaps with how it renders certain shading effects, because I actually noticed that on the TV too, but scaled up since the picture is bigger. I don't think it's actual screen door affect, but it looks kind of like it. But, for the most part, the monitor did just fine being fed the signal from the TOMEE cable alone.

Another thing that I learned about this monitor is that I am able to stretch the image horizontally and get "perfect" aspect ratio. The whole image then has to be shifted over to fit, and it winds up a little off-center, but the whole screen is still full, no black bars. (This monitor actually does not render those black side-bars from the DC to begin with, but the Aspect Ratio is still off to start with.) I had to re-adjust the H-Pos at least once between games (I think going from Shenmue to Shenmue 2, and I may have had to adjust the A/R between 355 and the Shenmue titles, but no big deal, I was able to see them all with full screen, "perfect" A/R, with the image just a bit off-center.

So I would say that this monitor accepts the TOMEE Dreamcast VGA cable with no issues, and does a good job with handling the inherent Dreamcast A/R issues as well.

At that point I'm thinking unless the monitor itself is shielded better or handles the VGA signal somehow better than my TV, there is nothing wrong with my TOMEE cable, or my monitor cables, and perhaps the TV simply does not do well with VGA input.

I did check one thing concerning my perceived lack of ground on pin 5 when testing all 3 of my cables. I tested again and discovered that when the monitor cable is plugged into the TV (or the monitor), those devices will provide a ground path for pin 5. Pins 4,5,6,7,8,10,11 all had path to ground when plugged into the TV or the monitor. I tested from the cable pins to the earth plug on both units just to make sure. The TV had a little more resistance on the R,G,B pins vs the monitor (76ohms vs 75ohms), and on the ground pins as well, where the TV showed about an ohm, the monitor showed about half an ohm. I don't know if that makes a difference, but I doubt it.

I've read that the DC VGA signal is over-driven. I've also read that the signal is under-driven. I've also read that the pixel clock is a weird timing and perhaps that is causing the problem with my TV.

I hooked the TOMEE / monitor cable combo back up to my TV to do some more basic tweaking within the TV menus.
This TV is a real PITA when it comes to settings, and I was able to clarify how some of them differ.

In PC mode through the D-Sub, you have three picture setting modes. Dynamic, Standard, and Movie.
You can change Backlight, Contrast, Brightness for all of them, and Sharpness seems to automatically be set and locked, although it might even automatically change , but you cannot adjust it in any picture setting mode. The sharpness displayed 75 in Dynamic, 50 in Standard, and 20 in Movie, but I swear that they might have changed by themselves at some point, and I will check into that more closely.

The "Screen" menu will let you adjust the aspect ratio via the Course and Fine settings in any mode, as well as H-Pos and V-Pos in any mode. (In 4:3 or 16:9 I could not get the A/R as "perfect" as the 4:3 monitor , although I might go back in there and try some more.)

Ahead's where things change up a little. In Dynamic mode, the "Detailed Settings" menu gets greyed out and you cannot see what is going on in there.

In Standard mode, the Detailed Settings menu is now active, and the Black Adjustment is set to off and not adjustable, the Dynamic Contrast levels are selectable, the Gamma is adjustable, the Colorspace is set to Native and not adjustable, the White Balance is adjustable, Flesh Tone is set to 0 and not adjustable, Edge Enhancement is off and not adjustable.

In Movie mode, the Detailed Settings menu is the same as Standard mode, except that Colorspace is set to Auto and not adjustable.

The final menu across all three modes is the "Picture Options" menu, which is the basically the same across all three modes, and where the Color Tone is selectable (movie mode has a few more choices), size is selectable (3:4 or 16:9), Digital Noise Reduction is auto and not adjustable, DNEI is off and not adjustable, and HDMI Black Level is set to Normal and not adjustable.

So basically if you start out across all modes with the same Backlight, Contrast, Brightness, and Color Tone, it boils down to you won't know what the TV chooses to set within the "Detailed Settings" in Dynamic Mode. Dynamic Mode seems to activate the Dynamic Contrast to some degree, although not as "dynamically" as simply choosing "Standard" mode and running the Dynamic Contrast on "Low", if all other settings are equal.

I ended up with the settings below as a baseline across all modes, and then compared Dynamic mode to Standard mode with different Dynamic Contrast settings (Off, Low, Medium, High). Right now Standard with Low Dynamic Contrast seems to be the best choice for me, and these settings below seem to be close to where I want to be.

Mode : Standard
Backlight : 8
Contrast : 90
Brightness : 44
Sharpness : 50 (not adjustable, value might change automatically, need to observe)

Screen
Course : 35
Fine : 0
HPos all the way right

Detailed Settings
Dynamic Contrast : Low
(all other settings in this submenu left at default or not adjustable)

Picture Options
Color Tone Normal
Size 16:9
(all other settings in this submenu not adjustable)

This gives me a nice picture, despite the weird VGA ghost fog that sometimes pops up. I have no idea what to call it. One way I can see it really well is if I open the Shenmue notebook with a dark background, the screen above and below the notebook pages will have a yellow fog over it.

I'll probably roll the dice and throw a part at it and buy a known-good-quality VGA monitor cable, as I don't know the quality of the ones that I have, but if they were bad I would think that any problems would show up on the monitor as well, unless the monitor is protecting itself from noise better, or if that pixel clock timing has something to do with it, and the monitor can handle it while the TV cannot.

I also ordered a used 3rd-party VGA box, but it is the orange "Madness Games" one and I have heard people say that it is crap as well. Other people say it works fine. I will post up when I get that going next week sometime.

Just as an aside if anyone is wondering, my TV accepts S-Video from my D.C. S-video cable, and it looks just fine with no weird artifacts, although it is 480i.

I also wanted to say that I did one more test by hooking up my laptop back up to the D-Sub on my TV with one of my monitor cables, and ran some you tube videos and stuff like that, and saw no VGA fog or any issues. That was not 640 x 480, rather it was whatever the best choice is, 1920x780 idk. Modern resolution. I did boot the laptop in low res mode 640x480, but it would kick the VGA external output signal back to modern resolution when displayed on the TV.

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Re: Dreamcast VGA TV Compatibility List

Post#20 » Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:24 am

Hi, just wanted to post an update with my setup. Concerning the TOMEE cable+vga monitor cable and the weird "ghost fog" apparitions on my TV, I was able to minimize them somewhat by lowering the RGB gain and offset, and then increasing other settings to end up with
Picture Mode : Standard
Backlight : 8
Contrast : 95
Brightness : 58
(Sharpness:50)
>Detailed Settings
Dynamic Contrast:Low
Gamma +3
White Balance
R-offset 0
G-offset 0
B offset 5
R-gain 1
G-gain 0
B-gain 5
Color Tone : Normal
I know that adjusting the white balance settings can be tricky without a setup disc, and I plan on finding one for the DC. Despite these adjustments, I could still see some ghost fog in certain instances, such as when opening the Shenmue1/2 notebook I would see yellow fog above and below it, or standing by the red tree in the park in Shenmue 2, there would be a horizontal band of red fog beneath it. Also, the Dreamcast on-screen "buttons" would still cast a dim horizontal fog across the whole screen. Overall the fog was minimized by switching to the above settings in this post, but still present. Then I got curious about changing these settings in S-Video mode. I unplugged TOMEE cable and the plastic halves covering the metal Dreamcast-style plug came apart, and the internal plug popped out of the now-separated housing. At that point I was done with TOMEE cable, and sent it back too. I guess TOMEE could be good to use with the NEC monitor if one were to plug it in and leave it alone, but I sent it back for my money, gambling that the used 3rd party VGA box still on the way would work with my TV, so I resigned myself to playing around in S-Video mode until it got here. Wow. S-Video looks a lot worse than a few weeks ago, before I started playing around with VGA & component setups. Despite the VGA/component problems that I have been having on my TV, the difference between S-Video and VGA on my TV was already clear.

Eventually, my orange "Madness Gameware" box got here. It smelled like an old computer that had been running a little warm, so I opened it up for a quick inspection and saw no obvious problems or repairs. I buttoned it back up and hooked it up to the Dreamcast. The connection was nice and snug. It has a female VGA out, so I was able to hook up one of my random monitor cables directly to it, and directly to my TV. Fired it up and...no issues. After some fiddling around with the TVs brightness/etc. settings, the blacks are black. The whites are white. The colors are not bleeding across the screen. The Shenmue notebook is fine, the on-screen buttons are fine, Test Drive Le Mans at night is dark yet all of the details are well-defined, so, this thing is a go. It also does not run warm or hot. I also tested it with the NEC monitor with no issues. (One cable didn't fit well into the Madness box and didn't connect initially. It would bottom out and the thumb screws would not even reach the lugs. I eventually got it to connect by pressing harder, but it still would not fit well and the thumbscrews still would not reach the lugs on the Madness box. It would send signal recognized by the TV and the monitor.) I also tested for noise by connecting both random monitor cables together with the female/female adaptor plugs to see if the F/F adaptor or the cables together were going to introduce the "color fog" on my TV, but the TV and the monitor displayed the Madness signal through both monitor cables and the f/f adaptor with no issues. I don't even see a need to buy the Startech VGA cable, although I should have a 10-footer instead of a 6-footer in my setup. They never got back to me concerning the signal grounds on pins 4 & 11, and I think that my TV needs to see those to activate its PC input. I tested the Madness box VGA pin-outs for grounds while it was plugged into the un-powered DC, but didn't get any resistance or continuity readings at all on any pin-outs from the VGA box.

I could see a couple of shortcomings of my TV displaying this signal in VGA with some vertical jail bar type things in really dark monochromatic areas, some pixellation/screen-door type action going on in areas with transparent shading, like thin clouds, but nothing really distracting. Sometimes the sky at night in Test Drive Le Mans would look a little weird with pixellations when it would start to get cloudy, and also when it would start to get light out even when clear I think I saw some weird shading pixellations in the middle of the screen, so I think that some of the DC shading tricks are made more obvious with the clarity of the VGA and the sharp edges of the LCD screen. Next on the list is to find out how to do a good calibration just because, and possibly get a longer VGA cable with ample shielding, although I think my current cables have shielding that is working well, they are just a little short.

So in a nutshell, the Madness Gameware VGA box is a "go" with the NEC MULTI-SYNC LCD1970GX monitor, and the LCD SAMSUNG LN-46-A650 -A1F television, although one of my VGA cables did not seat easily into the Madness box.

Also, the TOMEE cable directly to the NEC MULTI-SYNC LCD1970GX monitor is a go.
The TOMEE cable directly to the SAMSUNG LN-46-A650 -A1F television is a no-go (TV does not recognize the cable), but TOMEE connected via a female/female VGA adaptor plug, to a VGA monitor cable that the TV recognizes ( test by plugging in VGA monitor cable by itself to TV and see if TV illuminates the "PC" option in the input select menu), should get you going, but you are most likely going to have the horizontal "ghost fog" issues like I did. Also, TOMEE proved to be fragile. Mine started to fall apart with minimal and careful usage.

Here are my current TV settings with the Madness box. This is by eyeball and probably going to change somewhat. Once I get a setup disc going and I figure out how to use it with my TV, I'll update them.

Input : "P.C." (D-Sub)

Pic Mode : Standard
Backlight : 8
Contrast : 90
Brightness : 50
(Sharpness : 50) (This is non-adjustable and seems to stay locked at "50")

Screen
Course : 35 (This setting will not totally solve the aspect ratio problems in 4:3 or 16:9 size mode, even when dialed totally up or down respectively, but I found "35" in 16:9 mode to be a good compromise between an image stretched to full screen, or having huge black bars on either side and still not the proper aspect ratio.)
Fine : 0
Position : Move Full Right

Detailed Settings
Dynamic Contrast : Medium (I suspect moving this from "OFF" may introduce some input lag, but I have not sensed any.)
Gamma : +3
White Balance : RGB Offset & Gain : set all six adjustments to "15" (default is "25")

Picture Options
Color Tone : Normal
Size : 16:9 (I suspect setting this to 16:9 instead of 4:3 may introduce some input lag, but I have not sensed any.)

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