Defending Sonic Forces

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Iron Dreamcast
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Defending Sonic Forces

Post#1 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:39 am

Sonic Forces is yet to be released and yet people are already saying that it's bad SMH!

You're allowed to judge a game off of trailers and stuff, that is what they are for but don't say that it IS good or bad, say that it LOOKS good or bad. A good example is the pretty recent Crash N-Sane Trilogy. When demos and stuff were shown off people got kind of scared but when it came out about a week or so ago most people liked it.

I don't think that Sonic Forces looks that great, but who knows what I will think when I play it? It could be amazing, or really bad for all I know but I don't know yet because it's not out and because it's not out no one has played the full game you're just playing a demo, which is unfinished and more polish will be put later. I know that the demo of Sonic 06 was more polished than the final build, and what we wound up with was not what it was originally intended to be but I think that that's not going to happen again, especially since Sonic Boom was released. I won't go into full detail but Sonic Boom was originally going to be different from what we got, but the game was announced on Wii U without the developers knowing and since they were aiming for a PC release they had to remove a lot of content. Content such as level, better controls, more combat variety, there was so much left out.

I mentioned Sonic 06 having this too and again I won't go too much into detail but basically 06 was originally going to be a back to basics reboot of the series, but the head of Sonic Team at the time Yuji Naka left the team to create his own company so the other developers didn't really know what to do anymore so what was going to be a back to basics game turned into a big ambitious and divisive experience. That and the game being rushed for the December 2006 deadline caused quite a lot of cut content, glitches, and overall an experience that didn't live up to the hype, and actually got a lot of people to bail from the franchise.

Either way I don't think that this will happen again, and while Forces does look mediocre (my opinion) we still have Sonic Mania coming out which looks like a masterpiece. Again it could be bad but overall I *think* that Mania will turn out good.

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Tarnish
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Re: Defending Sonic Forces

Post#2 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:06 am

Maybe you can't judge the quality of the game based on videos and demos, but you can safely judge its mechanics, since those are very likely not gonna change from the demo to the final release.

And at this point it's safe to say it's gonna be Sonic Generaions 2.0 regardless how much Takashi Iizuka insists it's not a sequel. You got your at this point typical boost-to-win "modern" Sonic, your "classic" Sonic without classic physics and controls and as a bonus, some Megaman wannabe fan characters.

Whether you think these mechanics are good or not obviously comes down to personal taste.

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itsthinkingstill
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Re: Defending Sonic Forces

Post#3 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:47 pm

Tarnish wrote:Maybe you can't judge the quality of the game based on videos and demos, but you can safely judge its mechanics, since those are very likely not gonna change from the demo to the final release.

And at this point it's safe to say it's gonna be Sonic Generaions 2.0 regardless how much Takashi Iizuka insists it's not a sequel. You got your at this point typical boost-to-win "modern" Sonic, your "classic" Sonic without classic physics and controls and as a bonus, some Megaman wannabe fan characters.

Whether you think these mechanics are good or not obviously comes down to personal taste.


Very True if you did not like Generations then most likely you wont like this, though everyone says the controls for modern and classic Sonic control way better than generations so that's a bonus

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Tarnish
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Re: Defending Sonic Forces

Post#4 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:13 pm

itsthinkingstill wrote:Everyone says the controls for modern and classic Sonic control way better than generations so that's a bonus


I didn't play the demo so I can't comment on how it feels, but looking at the Green Hill video: Sonic coming to a stop on a dime while going at moderte speed (probably when the player lets go of the d-pad/analog stick), all momentum cancelled upon hitting a vertical spring...that doesn't sound like good controls to me. Of course, maybe SEGA will fix these for the final version, but the chances of that happening are very slim.

Also, here's something that just hit me: those lovely speed pads across the stage, especially those placed in tunnels...made backtracking on the stage single handedly impossible...in a 2D Sonic game...so if you missed something or want to go back to explore a different path, better forget about it and just restart the stage. I think that's terrible game and level design in a Sonic game, but hey, that's just me. (Admittedly there were stages in the classic games as well where backtracking was impossible, but I recall those were the exceptions, not the norm and there was a better explanation/reason for it than "the developers placed a single direction speed pad in the tunnel".)

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Bob Dobbs
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Re: Defending Sonic Forces

Post#5 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:04 am

As for the new Sonic Forces, I expect it to be equal to or better than the Adventure games or it will be a fail. After Sonic 06, which in my opinion was the last really good "epic" game (reboot or not, purple green blue, whatever argument/fact). "Epic" is what I always expect since Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 because this is where the Sonic series elevated to that "next level" of video gaming with solid story lines, dual hero/dark story game play and many other unique firsts (love the VMU Chao save).

Sonic 06, for what ever anyone's opinion is, was and will be the last "true" epic game. I like Sonic 06 but I'm not a huge fan of it whereas I really admire the Dreamcast Sonic Adventure games (and my family and I still plays the 4-player Sonic Shuffle too). It's still not the same since the Dreamcast era as a whole.

BTW: Nicely done, Iron Dreamcast! I do agree with your objective outlook on the game. Also Tarnish hit the mark with the reality versus demo (I always equate Intellivision "Space Spartans" as the game that you have to actually play it to realize this is something special - NEVER YouTube it...it's really bad to watch).
Regards,
Bob Dobbs

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Iron Dreamcast
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Re: Defending Sonic Forces

Post#6 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:54 am

Tarnish wrote:Maybe you can't judge the quality of the game based on videos and demos, but you can safely judge its mechanics, since those are very likely not gonna change from the demo to the final release.

And at this point it's safe to say it's gonna be Sonic Generaions 2.0 regardless how much Takashi Iizuka insists it's not a sequel. You got your at this point typical boost-to-win "modern" Sonic, your "classic" Sonic without classic physics and controls and as a bonus, some Megaman wannabe fan characters.

Whether you think these mechanics are good or not obviously comes down to personal taste.


Yeah I agree, remember when Izuka said that this was going to be a "brand new experience" pffffttt I've said it a million times and I will say it again it looks like a combination of Colors and Generations, mixed with it's own coat of paint, to basically give us Generations 2, without calling it that.

But tbf I do think that they're better of calling it Sonic Forces rather than Generations 2 because fans would get to hyped and they would be dissapointed. Also many people would compare it to the original, and basically Sonic 4 would happen. (My opinion) I don't think Sonic 4 is bad, it's a pretty average title but I will admit that it isn't as good as any of the other classics counting CD.

While this game doesn't look all that great I still look forward to giving it a chance, no matter how many times I'm gonna see Green Hill in the game. I know what to expect from the game but the thing is, will it be fun? Idc about the story or the graphics I just want the game to be fun. Although I think that we are in for a treat with the story, this could be the first well written game with Rodger voicing Sonic. A̶l̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶R̶o̶d̶g̶e̶r̶'̶s̶ ̶f̶a̶u̶l̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶t̶o̶r̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶b̶a̶d̶ ̶s̶i̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶B̶l̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶K̶n̶i̶g̶h̶t̶,̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶w̶r̶i̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶f̶a̶u̶l̶t̶;̶ ̶K̶e̶n̶ ̶P̶o̶n̶t̶a̶i̶c̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶W̶a̶r̶r̶e̶n̶ ̶G̶r̶a̶f̶f̶.̶

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Iron Dreamcast
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Re: Defending Sonic Forces

Post#7 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:38 pm

Bob Dobbs wrote:As for the new Sonic Forces, I expect it to be equal to or better than the Adventure games or it will be a fail. After Sonic 06, which in my opinion was the last really good "epic" game (reboot or not, purple green blue, whatever argument/fact). "Epic" is what I always expect since Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 because this is where the Sonic series elevated to that "next level" of video gaming with solid story lines, dual hero/dark story game play and many other unique firsts (love the VMU Chao save).

Sonic 06, for what ever anyone's opinion is, was and will be the last "true" epic game. I like Sonic 06 but I'm not a huge fan of it whereas I really admire the Dreamcast Sonic Adventure games (and my family and I still plays the 4-player Sonic Shuffle too). It's still not the same since the Dreamcast era as a whole.

BTW: Nicely done, Iron Dreamcast! I do agree with your objective outlook on the game. Also Tarnish hit the mark with the reality versus demo (I always equate Intellivision "Space Spartans" as the game that you have to actually play it to realize this is something special - NEVER YouTube it...it's really bad to watch).


Meh not really.
The last "epic" storyline was Black Knight, I don't blame you for not knowing no one remembers that game even after the YouTuber ClementJ64 brought it back from the dead for a few years. Not even Game Grumps were able to resurrect it, and that's saying a lot. Black Knight will most likely always be hidden in obscurity, and it's a shame because you can say what you want about the game itself but the soundtrack is on point as always.

About the story though it wasn't really THAT serious (and that was probably a good move) but it still gives you that feel. Black Knight was also the last REAL Sonic plot-line everything afterward written by Ken Pontiac and Warren Graff don't feel like a Sonic plot at all.

Also about you saying ""Epic" is what I always expect since Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 because this is where the Sonic series elevated to that "next level" of video gaming with solid story lines, dual hero/dark story game play and many other unique firsts" not really. SA1 and 2 were a mix of being cheesy and serious, they're not 100% dark like Shadow the Hedgehog (2005) and Sonic 06.

In terms of Forces we don't know who the writers are but it does look like it is going to be a little bit more serious, and it probably will be especially after what we saw at E3. So far it seems like the characters will always be on the move, since during City Heights Sonic is telling everyone that he'll find Shadow and put an end to this, and in the Custom Hero's Green Hill Zone it's more of a robotic Green Hill Zone and Silver tells you to get to the Chemical Plant. AND I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYBODY SAYS CHEMICAL PLANT IS GOING TO BE IN THE GAME!!!

I want a Sonic game to have a more serious story-line. After Colors and so on that would be good, but just don't make it TOO serious like Shadow or 06. Even though I kinda like 06's story I miss the playful banter that everyone had, like in Adventure 2 when Sonic says "Oh you turned into a big-time villain doctor" that kind of stuff. Shadow's story is just plain boring, and what was the point? I know that everyone who talks about Shadow will mention this but the box art says something like "Hero or Renegade? Your choice" but there is a last story segment where Shadow winds up being a Hero... WHY SO MUCH FALSE ADVERTISING?!

Augh whatever, story doesn't really matter anyway the reason why we play games it to have fun with the gameplay, I don't like the story in Colors but I still find it an a-ok platformer. I don't think that the gameplay will be that good in Forces (I could be pleasantly surprised though) but so far the story and music are shaping up to be great.



Also you could stop reading if you want to because this is just some trivia but when Sonic Colors' script was translated into Japanese it had different dialogue, and I haven't watched the JPN cutscenes but I hear that they are better.

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Bob Dobbs
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Re: Defending Sonic Forces

Post#8 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:52 pm

I played Black Knight along with Radkin and we both felt it was not an "Epic" game although they did "try" to make one. Just because the idea or attempt is there, doesn't mean it achieved what it attempted, thus the last true "Epic" game being Sonic 06. I respect what you have stated and I know Black Knight was an attempt to be "Epic", it just did not have that same feel. Please also note that video games, like science fiction, may and will have their flaws, but how much of it hinders the "fun" of playing the game and what most of us gamers like, "the rush" you can get from the game. Black Knight never achieved that for either Radkin or I.

An Epic adventure can have humor (Like "The Lord Of The Rings", etc...). As far as firsts go, The SA series does have a great deal of firsts, including the Chao garden with incorporating virtual pets concept within this game. The player can hatch, raise and interact with a Chao. The Chao can be taken with the player by downloading the minigame Chao Adventure to their VMU to raise their stats by giving them small animals that they found by defeating the robots, which improves their performance in Chao Races. Online features like Leader boards, online Chao daycare, and downloadable content were also added for the localization, all first for Sonic games. By playing through Action Stages and Subgames, searching through the Adventure Fields or winning Chao Races, players can earn Emblems.

As far as script goes, SA2 especially was good and was good enough to be part of the Sonic X TV series. The research they did to make the first SA game was also incredible as they traveled across the globe with a 30-man team to create the environments that were part of the game.

Writers at GamesRadar have stated that, as Sonic Adventure was one of the first sixth generation console games, "the gaming world was changed forever". It is still remembered as the most impressive Sonic game from after the Genesis era and that, despite Sega's efforts, no post-Dreamcast Sonic game has achieved similar success. I do not believe anything other than Sonic 06 will ever get to "that level".

In conclusion I believe Sonic Forces is worth playing, but do not compare it to any of the games or you will be disappointed.
Regards,
Bob Dobbs

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