Xbox Backwards Compatibility

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Roareye
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Xbox Backwards Compatibility

Post#1 » Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:15 pm

I've been going through what's backwards compatible and what's not on the Xbox 360 and Xbox One (I don't have a Series S/X but usually they just match the Xbox One anyway I believe) - specifically looking at games that haven't been brought across.

Since Sega is my main jam, I've been scrutinising what the cause of several games being left out might be, I came up with the following;

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Afterburner Climax (XBLA) - Includes Boeing product placement, otherwise I don't see why this hasn't been made b/c

Aliens: Colonial Marines (X360) - Could be due to Aliens licence, but Sega did make Isolation b/c as well as making an Xbox One version. I think this might be due to 20th Century Games now being owned by Disney since the Disney/Fox buyout.

Anarchy Reigns (X360) - Owned by PlatinumGames and poorly reviewed

Beijing 2008, London 2012: The Official Video Game and Vancouver 2010 (X360) - Outdated Sports Licence

Captain America: Super Soldier, The Incredible Hulk, Iron Man, Iron Man 2 and Thor: God of Thunder (X360) - Outdated Marvel Licences, now owned by Disney

The Club (X360) - Bizarre Creations was bought by Activision

Condemned 2: Bloodshot (X360) - The first game is b/c, however I believe this one was left out as it is banned in Germany

Crazy Taxi 3: High Roller (XBOX) - Soundtrack rights, including The Offspring, Bad Religion, Pivit and Silverbullit

Ecco the Dolphin (XBLA) - An XBLA release, might have something to do with Appaloosa Interactive going bust.

Football Manager 2006, 2007 and 2008 (X360) - Outdated Sports Licence

Full Auto (X360) - Pseudo Interactive went bust

Golden Axe: Beast Rider (X360) - Unknown. Secret Level is now owned by Sega. Perhaps it's due to poor reviews?

The Golden Compass (X360) - Movie Licence

Headhunter Redemption (XBOX) - Amuze went bust in 2005

House of the Dead III (XBOX) - Lightguns don't work on modern TVs, this is b/c with X360.

Iron Phoenix (XBOX) - Interserv is a Taiwanese Company, perhaps that has something to do with it? It was only release in the US originally, so perhaps that might be part of why it's not b/c

Jet Set Radio Future (XBOX) - Music rights for all non-Naganuma tracks. Jet Set Radio's XBLA release had the same issue, however a workaround was found by replacing tracks that couldn't be licenced. JSRF can do the same, hell re-hire Naganuma to make new JSRF music for the release and you've got a win all round. Will play on X360.

Outrun 2 and Outrun 2006: Coast 2 Coast (XBOX) - Ferrari Licencing. Both play on X360.
Outrun Online Arcade (XBLA) - Ferrari Licencing

Phantasy Star Online: I & II (XBOX) - Servers have long been offline
Phantasy Star Universe (X360) - Servers have long been offline

Planet 51 (X360) - Movie Licence

Project Gotham Racing 1-4 (XBOX and X360) - Not strictly Sega, but the spiritual successors to MSR on DC. I thought Microsoft Game Studios owned these, but apparently the rights are with Bizarre Creations who were bought by Activision.

Puyo Pop Fever (XBOX) - Unknown

Renegade Ops (XBLA) - Avalanche Studios was bought by Nordisk Film in 2018.

Rent-A-Hero No.1 (XBOX) - International release was cancelled, although the text and dialogue was fully localised. There seems to be no good reason to not make this b/c.

Resonance of Fate (X360) - tri-Ace are owned by Nepro Japan, and Sega only published the X360 version - other publishers handled other consoles so it's likely SEGA hold no rights to it.

Rez HD (XBLA) - Rights were bought back by creator Mizuguchi, so Sega don't have the rights to re-release.

Rise of Nightmares (X360) - Requires Kinect

Sega GT 2002 and Sega GT Online (XBOX) - Car Licencing and Music licencing. Sega GT Online had licenced music from bands like Supersuckers etc. Will play on X360.

Sega Rally Revo and SROA/Sega Rally Online Arcade (X360/XBLA) - Car Licencing

Sega Superstars Tennis (X360) - Unknown. This has to be made b/c. Perhaps it's music rights conflicts with Richard Jacques (though they've made several other games with his music b/c, so unlikely).

Sega Soccer Slam (XBOX) - Black Box is now owned by Electronic Arts. Does play on X360.

Shadow the Hedgehog (XBOX) - Unknown. Could be music licencing, though that's unlikely. Could be that it was unpopular. Could be that the game outputs in interlaced mode and is difficult to force into progressive? Really I have no idea.

Shenmue II (XBOX) - While not b/c, the Shenmue I & II release on XONE cover for this title. Will play in X360.

Sonic Heroes (XBOX) - Unknown.

Sonic Riders (X360) - Possibly rights issues with Now Production?
Sonic Free Riders (X360) - Requires Kinect

Sonic 2006 (X360) - Likely poor reviews and numerous glitches? There seems to be no legal issue making this b/c.

Sonic Mega Collection Plus (XBOX) - Unknown, but was replaced on X360 with Sonic Ultimate Genesis Collection/Ultimate Mega Drive Collection. Will play on X360.
Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection/Ultimate Mega Drive Collection (X360) - Unknown, but was replaced on XONE with Sega Mega Drive Collection. The emulator is terrible in the XONE game, however.
ADDITIONAL - Sonic Team are actually doing full ports of the original Sonic games under a supposed 2022 game "Sonic Origins". Because they will be full ports, they'll support 16:9 widescreen and allow for extra features akin to Sonic CD's XBLA re-release by Christian Whitehead. It's likely none of these Sonic game emulators will be ported as they'll be replaced with Sonic Origins.

Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing (X360) - Unknown. Transformed (the sequel) was made b/c, there seems to be no reason not to do the first title in the racing trilogy (this, Transformed and Team Sonic Racing). Perhaps it's the X360 versions' appearance of Banjo-Kazooie that is the problem?

Space Channel 5: Part 2 (XBLA) - Space Michael Jackson.

Spartan: Total Warrior (XBOX) - Unknown

Spikeout: Battle Street (XBOX) - Unknown

Stormrise (X360) - Unknown

Streets of Rage 2 (XBLA) - Unknown. Likely not bothered as the game exists in both the Sega Vintage Collection: Streets Of Rage and in Sega Mega Drive Classics.

Super Monkey Ball Deluxe (XBOX) - Unknown, however Super Monkey Ball Banana Mania (XONE) is a new port of the title. The Xbox disc plays in X360.

Taito Legends and Taito Legends 2 (XBOX) - Taito Licences, retro compilations almost never get made b/c.

Toejam & Earl III: Mission To Earth (XBOX)[/color] - Visual Concepts (devs) now owned by 2K, TJ&E owned by Greg Johnson/HumaNature Studios

Universe at War: Earth Assault (X360) - Unknown

Viking: Battle for Asgard (X360) - Unknown

Virtua Fighter 5 (X360) - Unknown. They did make Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown b/c, though it feels like a stripped down version of the disc title. Final Showdown is based on a more recent arcade board revision so it's likely that's all they'll release.

Virtua Striker (X360) - Outdated Sports Licence

Virtua Tennis 2009, Virtua Tennis 3 and Virtua Tennis 4 (X360) - Outdated sports licences, specifically players

World Series Baseball 2K2 and 2K3 (XBOX) - Outdated sports licence. 2K3 is playable on X360.

World Snooker Championship 2005 (XBOX and X360) - Released on both previous console iterations, neither are backwards compatible. Outdated sports licence.

Worms and Worms 2: Armageddon (XBLA) - Owned by Team17
Worms 3D, Worms 4: Mayhem and Worms Forts: Under Seige (XBOX) - Owned by Team17. Worms 4: Mayhem may be comparable to Worms Ultimate Mayhem on XONE.

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Out of the list, these are the ones I'd love to see fixed;

Afterburner Climax
The Club
Jet Set Radio Future
Outrun 2
Outrun 2006: Coast 2 Coast
Outrun Online Arcade
Phantasy Star Online I&II
Renegade Ops
Rent-A-Hero No.1
Sega GT Online
Sega Rally Revo
Sega Rally Online Arcade (SROA)
Sega Superstars Tennis
Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing
Toejam & Earl III: Mission to Earth
Virtua Tennis 3

16 of about 80 titles for Sega to bring back. I'll take the PGR games too, but those aren't actually within SEGA's control whatsoever.
That's not a major ask, especially since several of them require the same licencing. 3 Outruns have the same licencing as each other, as do the two Sega Rallys. JSRF's can be gotten around by replacing licenced music tracks with more Naganuma goodness for an easy victory.

For anyone looking for a list on Xbox backwards compatibility, I made this:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

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mistamontiel
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Re: Xbox Backwards Compatibility

Post#2 » Wed Feb 23, 2022 12:02 pm


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Anthony817
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Re: Xbox Backwards Compatibility

Post#3 » Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:18 pm

Microsoft stated that they absolutely TRIED to get every single requested game that was feasible. Take for instance older games with licensed cars for instance. Once that license runs out, games are pulled. Hence why no PGR 4 on there which is a shame. The other Forza games got added since they were legit in house first party but I think you just can not buy them, which I don't understand why they didn't do same for PGR. Or at least do like some of the other backwards compatible games are, just make the disc versions wok but do not provide a way to purchase them.

So yes, every single game that never got brought over was absolutely due to licensing issues, as the original developers did not have to do any of the work,. Microsoft did it all so they had nothing to loose by giving the go ahead and everything to gain for MS to bring games to it. You can not buy those games anymore anyways, so that is why they never made most of them. No return on investment.
Last edited by Anthony817 on Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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dubcity
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Re: Xbox Backwards Compatibility

Post#4 » Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:33 pm

Anthony is right licenses are the reasons why most of these games have not made backward compatible.

Almost all these with license music only covered a certain amount of time. When MS tried to bring these games back the license holders wanted to renegotiate the terms. Since these games are being sold for 9.99 each it becomes a bad business decision to pay license holders same fees as if it's new 60 dollar game.

Car games are same problem twice. License covers certain amount of time. But now it's for car licenses and music licenses.

I believe there is another hidden problem here also: the older games are in most cases better than the newer games. Companies are scared to compete against themselves. This is kinda one of the reasons Sony gives for why they don't do backwards compatibility. You won't buy the new games when there are hundreds from the last console you can still play. In a way this is bitting them in the ass on PS5. PS5 owners are buying the PS4 versions of games cuz they are 10 dollars cheaper and the PS4 version is backward compatible on PS5.

Hopefully if MS owns Activision it will free up some of these games to become backwards compatible.

Next buy Sega and this whole list becomes open season lol

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Roareye
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Re: Xbox Backwards Compatibility

Post#5 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:05 am

mistamontiel wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_games_compatible_with_Xbox_360


Not the same list, and not fully tested and/or up to date. Also very messy. My list was SEGA titles (with a few extras that had some mild Sega connections). Also doesn't mention any reasons for titles not being made backwards compatible, which I covered in my post.

Anthony817 wrote:Microsoft stated that they absolutely TRIED to get every single requested game that was feasible. Take for instance older games with licensed cars for instance. Once that license runs out, games are pulled. Hence why no PGR 4 on there which is a shame. The other Forza games got added since they were legit in house first party but I think you just can not buy them, which I don't understand why they didn't do same for PGR. Or at least do like some of the other backwards compatible games are, just make the disc versions wok but do not provide a way to purchase them.

I do mention which licences are missing on different titles. AfterBurner Climax's Boeing licence, for example.
With PGR it's because Microsoft don't seem to own the rights to it anymore. Bizarre Creations were bought by Activision, so the rights to b/c will likely lie with Activision and not Microsoft now. Microsoft legit owns Forza outright.

Anthony817 wrote:So yes, every single game that never got brought over was absolutely due to licensing issues, as the original developers did not have to do any of the work,. Microsoft did it all so they had nothing to loose by giving the go ahead and everything to gain for MS to bring games to it. You can not buy those games anymore anyways, so that is why they never made most of them. No return on investment.

The rights to redistribute are also with the game rights' holders, and some may not have wanted certain games re-released as they would want to milk the IP in a potential future re-release at full retail price (Or it was unnecessary. Beyond Good And Evil on Xbox isn't backwards compatible but the Xbox 360 Beyond Good and Evil HD is backwards compatible).
But yeah, most of the games missing tend to have external rights licenced from vehicles, music etc.

dubcity wrote:I believe there is another hidden problem here also: the older games are in most cases better than the newer games. Companies are scared to compete against themselves. This is kinda one of the reasons Sony gives for why they don't do backwards compatibility. You won't buy the new games when there are hundreds from the last console you can still play. In a way this is biting them in the ass on PS5. PS5 owners are buying the PS4 versions of games cuz they are 10 dollars cheaper and the PS4 version is backward compatible on PS5.

It's funny, this is another area where companies say whatever suits their current interests rather than tell the truth - not dissimilar when they told us in the late 2000s that nobody wanted to play horror games anymore.
So Sony are saying "You won't buy the new games when there are hundreds from the last console you can still play."
I'm pretty sure during the PS4 era they said they wouldn't do backwards compatibility because nobody really plays old games. I'm sure Microsoft have said (about ten years ago) nobody wants to play old games.
Also having backwards compatibility didn't negatively affect the sales of the Mega Drive, the Wii's game sales didn't dip due to the retro store opening, same with the 3DS. Emulators haven't ended modern game and console sales. It's all BS.

I reckon you're right that most older games are far superior to modern games. It's hard to sell the scam titles that include Loot Boxes, micro-transactions and now NFTs when there are older titles that are real games. We're definitely heading towards a Video Game Crash of 2020-something (Maybe 2025?).

dubcity wrote:Hopefully if MS owns Activision it will free up some of these games to become backwards compatible.
Next buy Sega and this whole list becomes open season lol

Activision need to be bought up and shut down, Microsoft is the best avenue to do that. At least the backwards compatibility will give the fans what they want without funding abusers.

I kinda want Sega to stay themselves. I just want them to figure out inventive ways around licencing issues on older titles - they're obviously figuring it out with Sonic 3's upcoming release on Sonic Origins and the Michael Jackson estate/MJ's musicians.
JSRF is the easiest title to fix. Remove the music they don't have the rights for and hire Naganuma to make new tracks for the Xbox One release. Done. Dusted. Fixed. Considering the disc is only read to identify the game, then a new copy is downloaded, there's no reason to not be able to modify the download. They must do that to make certain titles 4K compatible on Series X anyway.

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dubcity
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Re: Xbox Backwards Compatibility

Post#6 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:37 pm

Roareye wrote:I kinda want Sega to stay themselves. I just want them to figure out inventive ways around licencing issues on older titles - they're obviously figuring it out with Sonic 3's upcoming release on Sonic Origins and the Michael Jackson estate/MJ's musicians.
JSRF is the easiest title to fix. Remove the music they don't have the rights for and hire Naganuma to make new tracks for the Xbox One release. Done. Dusted. Fixed. Considering the disc is only read to identify the game, then a new copy is downloaded, there's no reason to not be able to modify the download. They must do that to make certain titles 4K compatible on Series X anyway.


What deal has Sega made with the Jackson family?

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Nico0020
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Re: Xbox Backwards Compatibility

Post#7 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:30 pm

dubcity wrote:
Roareye wrote:I kinda want Sega to stay themselves. I just want them to figure out inventive ways around licencing issues on older titles - they're obviously figuring it out with Sonic 3's upcoming release on Sonic Origins and the Michael Jackson estate/MJ's musicians.
JSRF is the easiest title to fix. Remove the music they don't have the rights for and hire Naganuma to make new tracks for the Xbox One release. Done. Dusted. Fixed. Considering the disc is only read to identify the game, then a new copy is downloaded, there's no reason to not be able to modify the download. They must do that to make certain titles 4K compatible on Series X anyway.


What deal has Sega made with the Jackson family?
Probably none. The original leaker about the project said S3&k would have some changes made. I'd imagine they are going to use the beta tracks for a few of the stages. While the Jackson tracks are still better IMO, the beta tracks still sound quite good on genesis hardware.

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Roareye
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Re: Xbox Backwards Compatibility

Post#8 » Sat Feb 26, 2022 10:36 am

dubcity wrote:
Roareye wrote:I kinda want Sega to stay themselves. I just want them to figure out inventive ways around licencing issues on older titles - they're obviously figuring it out with Sonic 3's upcoming release on Sonic Origins and the Michael Jackson estate/MJ's musicians.
JSRF is the easiest title to fix. Remove the music they don't have the rights for and hire Naganuma to make new tracks for the Xbox One release. Done. Dusted. Fixed. Considering the disc is only read to identify the game, then a new copy is downloaded, there's no reason to not be able to modify the download. They must do that to make certain titles 4K compatible on Series X anyway.


What deal has Sega made with the Jackson family?

I just figured they must have done if they're genuinely porting Sonic 3 in the upcoming Sonic Origins game (which seems to be having it's own behind-the-scenes drama going on as it is). According to Takashi Iizuka they will be actual ports not emulated ROMs.

However as Nico0020 said, it's also possible Sega may evade settling the Jackson estate altogether by simply re-releasing with the BETA tracks in place (albeit finished, I would hope. It's clear the tracks in the BETA were not in a finished state). However if they do go the route of replacing the Jackson tracks with the BETA's, that only adds more reason for SEGA to update an Xbox One b-c version of Jet Set Radio Future with new Naganuma tracks. Hell - I'd actually buy the bloody game again at this point if that's what it took (rather than waiting for Backwards Compatibility). There's literally no excuse not to re-release it in one guise or another, be it backwards compatibility or as a re-release.

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