Dreamcast/bumpmapping

General Dreamcast discussion applies here. Before posting here please check the other forums in the Dreamcast section to see if your topic would fit better in those categories.

Moderator: mazonemayu

Forum rules
Please check the other forums in the Dreamcast section before posting here to see if your topic would fit better in those categories. Example: A new game/homebrew release would go in the New Releases/Homebrew/Emulation section: http://dreamcast-talk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5 or if you're having an issue with getting your Dreamcast to work or a game to boot it would go in the Support section: http://dreamcast-talk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=42
beanboy
Sunday Shootout
Posts: 668

Re: Dreamcast/bumpmapping

Post#11 » Wed May 20, 2020 2:48 pm

Wow! A basket weave patterned road and grass. Nice effect. :D

p1pkin
noob
Posts: 4

Re: Dreamcast/bumpmapping

Post#12 » Thu May 21, 2020 11:31 pm

cloofoofoo wrote:I went back to f1 racing championship on the dreamcast and replaced what I thought was the bump map for the road and grass just to confirm the game uses bumpmapping . And yes it does, the road and grass became bick like.

how do you 'confirmed' F1 Racing game uses bump-mapping ?
I've logged renderer list during gameplay and see there no any BUMPMAP-type textures usage, only common ARGB1555 and a bit of ARGB4444 textures.
am I missing something and there need to check some specific circuit course ?

cloofoofoo wrote:huh, I guess many games on the dc could be using bumpmapping but we wouldnt know at all because for some reason its not noticeable .

huh, back in the days, I've run in emulator with special logging code most of games from TOSEC DC set, but Rayman 2 was the only game where emulator yell'd "hey! bummap was used!".
also, I highly doubt such effects might be visually noticeable in Dreamcast games. for example Rayman 2 - no one at DC scene was aware of this game uses bumpmaps, until 7 year ago when we discovered it during this game renderer analysis.

User avatar
Ryo_Hazuki
undertow
Posts: 31

Re: Dreamcast/bumpmapping

Post#13 » Fri May 22, 2020 5:52 pm

p1pkin wrote:
cloofoofoo wrote:I went back to f1 racing championship on the dreamcast and replaced what I thought was the bump map for the road and grass just to confirm the game uses bumpmapping . And yes it does, the road and grass became bick like.

how do you 'confirmed' F1 Racing game uses bump-mapping ?
I've logged renderer list during gameplay and see there no any BUMPMAP-type textures usage, only common ARGB1555 and a bit of ARGB4444 textures.
am I missing something and there need to check some specific circuit course ?

cloofoofoo wrote:huh, I guess many games on the dc could be using bumpmapping but we wouldnt know at all because for some reason its not noticeable .

huh, back in the days, I've run in emulator with special logging code most of games from TOSEC DC set, but Rayman 2 was the only game where emulator yell'd "hey! bummap was used!".
also, I highly doubt such effects might be visually noticeable in Dreamcast games. for example Rayman 2 - no one at DC scene was aware of this game uses bumpmaps, until 7 year ago when we discovered it during this game renderer analysis.

Very interesting.
Have you tested the tomb raider iv?

User avatar
Anthony817
Shark Patrol
Posts: 3044

Re: Dreamcast/bumpmapping

Post#14 » Fri May 22, 2020 7:08 pm

Didn't Soul Calibur also have Bump mapping on some of the stages ground textures?
Image

p1pkin
noob
Posts: 4

Re: Dreamcast/bumpmapping

Post#15 » Fri May 22, 2020 10:46 pm

Anthony817 wrote:Didn't Soul Calibur also have Bump mapping on some of the stages ground textures?

no, there is no bump maps in Soul Calibur, just good looking textures. I suppose you meant like ground at Sophitia's stage and similar.

Ryo_Hazuki wrote:Very interesting.
Have you tested the tomb raider iv?

iirc I've checked it at very beginning. but I can check later stages too, if someone will provide game save(s).

User avatar
Ian Micheal
Super Sonic
Posts: 1572
Contact:

Re: Dreamcast/bumpmapping

Post#16 » Fri May 22, 2020 10:54 pm

Emulators years ago dc one's did not even support bump mapping



2 years ago this emulator supported it for 2 games.. so even if there was you would not of seen it

Homebrew showing bump mapping on dreamcast

No bump mapping
Image

Heavy bump mapping
Image
heavy bump map applied, looks damn cool when you move the light source. Bottom image: base texture + bump map + environment map (pink / black)
Image

http://yam.20to4.net/dreamcast/index_old.html

As you can see if you go to the site and read it yes it can be done proof is right there on that site
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeVCRA ... whHyKp6OsA my youtube channel of my projects running :)

https://discord.gg/ZHb4rCq discord for my projects :)

https://twitter.com/IanMicheal10 Reach me on twitter:)

Source code to my projects
https://github.com/ianmicheal :)

p1pkin
noob
Posts: 4

Re: Dreamcast/bumpmapping

Post#17 » Fri May 22, 2020 11:44 pm

Ian Micheal wrote:Emulators years ago dc one's did not even support bump mapping
2 years ago this emulator supported it for 2 games.. so even if there was you would not of seen it

to make things more clear:
- Demul have bumpmap support since May 2013, i.e. 7 years ago as I've said earlier. (other slowpoke emulators did the same 5+years later, as usual, heh)
- I'm one of Demul developers, who discovered bumpmap in Rayman 2, and later was trying to find it in other games :)

Ian Micheal wrote:Homebrew showing bump mapping on dreamcast

sadly, that homebrew is not available, all we have is just that screenshots.
speaking of demos - bump was used in this scene demo, cube model texture at 2:15


but we was talking about DC games, isn't it ?
Last edited by p1pkin on Fri May 22, 2020 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ian Micheal
Super Sonic
Posts: 1572
Contact:

Re: Dreamcast/bumpmapping

Post#18 » Fri May 22, 2020 11:55 pm

Very cool I use demul when i cant use hardware I wish the demo was around to.. Some of the others ar enot working right instant dma can read from 2 places at the same time from the gdrom.. etc double buffer not working list goes on really.. Demul is close to how the hardware works still not perfect nothing can be but it's close.. still faster about 5 to 10% in DMA speed then the real hardware.. so developing on any dreamcast emulator is a fools gold
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeVCRA ... whHyKp6OsA my youtube channel of my projects running :)

https://discord.gg/ZHb4rCq discord for my projects :)

https://twitter.com/IanMicheal10 Reach me on twitter:)

Source code to my projects
https://github.com/ianmicheal :)

cloofoofoo
fragger
Posts: 263

Re: Dreamcast/bumpmapping

Post#19 » Sat May 23, 2020 12:52 pm

p1pkin wrote:
cloofoofoo wrote:I went back to f1 racing championship on the dreamcast and replaced what I thought was the bump map for the road and grass just to confirm the game uses bumpmapping . And yes it does, the road and grass became bick like.

how do you 'confirmed' F1 Racing game uses bump-mapping ?
I've logged renderer list during gameplay and see there no any BUMPMAP-type textures usage, only common ARGB1555 and a bit of ARGB4444 textures.
am I missing something and there need to check some specific circuit course ?

cloofoofoo wrote:huh, I guess many games on the dc could be using bumpmapping but we wouldnt know at all because for some reason its not noticeable .

huh, back in the days, I've run in emulator with special logging code most of games from TOSEC DC set, but Rayman 2 was the only game where emulator yell'd "hey! bummap was used!".
also, I highly doubt such effects might be visually noticeable in Dreamcast games. for example Rayman 2 - no one at DC scene was aware of this game uses bumpmaps, until 7 year ago when we discovered it during this game renderer analysis.


Actually I was wrong. It was a detail texture blended on top.
I noticed nulldc had a specific behavior . I used a program to dump the textures as they are being loaded so I used the multi bump map demo. Everytime you switch texture it supposed to switch bumpmap to match it. I can see the diffuse texture dumped but nulldc would not create the bumpmap instead it would just say unhandled texture in the console. That why realized f1 championship racing was just blending texture. It does the same for Rayman 2, on the first level there seems to be two textures that aren't loaded.
IAM guessing those are the bumpmaps.

p1pkin
noob
Posts: 4

Re: Dreamcast/bumpmapping

Post#20 » Tue May 26, 2020 5:16 pm

I see, and yes, NullDC might be used to check such cases based on that error message.

there is also another but not widely known bumpmap usage example - in Shenmue 2, medals / coins which player may get for special/secret achievements.
more details there https://www.shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46918
I've extracted both bumpmap and regular textures used for bronze and silver medals, in original PVRT format, see attachment.

so, in total we have 2 confirmed Dreamcast games which uses bump map feature - Rayman 2 (grass at 1st level) and Shenmue 2 (bronze, silver and gold medals).
Attachments
medals.zip
(68.66 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot]