GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

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thalespetacular
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GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by thalespetacular »

The mysterious Dreamcast's GTA 3 version just got another chapter on Twitter:

Obbe Vermeij was the technical director at Rockstar North back in the time, and today he was talking about some technical challenges on the PS2 production.

So the Dreamcast port question came, and he just confirmed: Though really in a initial stage, was real and he's pretty confident that the system could handle it.
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thalespetacular
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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by thalespetacular »

I don't know if this was already been confirmed before
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Spleet
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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by Spleet »

Damn.

Gman
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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by Gman »

That means… it’s still a possibility :o

Even locked into first person I think most of us would love the chance to explore Liberty City on our favorite system

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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by pcwzrd13 »

I spoke with Rockstar co-founder Jamie King about it back in 2017 and while he also confirmed it was in development, he said the Dreamcast couldn't handle it. I guess it's a matter of opinion. They probably didn't get far enough to really evaluate it.
"It was in development but the hardware wasn’t powerful enough to run the game in proper 3rd person perspective. We had to wait for the PS2"

"Not that far along and then it became clear that the Dreamcast wasn’t going to make it."
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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by cloofoofoo »

pcwzrd13 wrote:I spoke with Rockstar co-founder Jamie King about it back in 2017 and while he also confirmed it was in development, he said the Dreamcast couldn't handle it. I guess it's a matter of opinion. They probably didn't get far enough to really evaluate it.
"It was in development but the hardware wasn’t powerful enough to run the game in proper 3rd person perspective. We had to wait for the PS2"

"Not that far along and then it became clear that the Dreamcast wasn’t going to make it."
That makes sense because it seems Dreamcast version was multiple test that took place so it's gonna be various recollection but it seems it did just fine in these iterations ( also told by multiple members of dma in this article.)

Development of Grand Theft Auto III continued on Dreamcast, but exactly how long this version of the game was worked on or how far these experiments depends on the source. In 2023, Aaron Garbut, the current co-studio head at Rockstar North, told Game Informer about the Dreamcast tech demo:

"When we finished our first game at DMA Design, we had some time to prototype and come up with ideas. We also got access to a couple of Dreamcast devkits. Over several weeks, we managed to create a number of blocks of a city with docks, retail areas, and brownstones. We were playing, really, but we added characters walking the streets and cars driving around."

From here, DMA's founder Dave Jones suggested to the team that they transform the project from a generic city-based tech demo into a game modelled after the Godzilla license, with Jones assuring the team he could eventually get the rights. So, with a potential project beginning to take shape, Penn and the Silicon Valley team started working on designs.

"I remember Gary being rightly excited about the Dreamcast's analogue controller triggers," says Jack. "He had proposed a system whereby one trigger would control the neck and the other the jaw, which created this little core challenge of carefully picking things up (people/eggs/boxes) and not properly crushing them. We had a few sketched gameplay systems where you had to rescue/defend eggs, or you could pick people up and carry them as hostages."
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Penn comments, "It controlled quite nicely. You stomped around, you’d eat people and grow, and then you'd destroy even more things. And the idea was as you ate and destroyed, you’d grow and you’d eat and destroy some more. They had got the guts of that working on Dreamcast."

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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by Ian Micheal »

FPS mode would be even more heavy. Really, this is more than possible. I'm not sure what the fuss or shock is, but the developer said it was not a problem. I have looked into it with ADX and other things that can stream and read at the same time. Gdrom speed was more than enough to do this game, and there was also enough space. gta3 has been hacked on PS2, and it was found out the data was doubled all over the place. The game now fits on a CDR, let alone a GDROM. Stream compression would work and be fast; enff crazy taxi does this, as does super roundabout. polys push on gta 3 is very low for all the builds and cars and people well with in spec of the dreamcast. Only streaming in just a head, you're never loading the full world in, and you're also never loading the full world in on the PS2 ether. Saying it's not possible was just keeping Sony happy, or blah talk at the time. Of course, the PS2 version runs like utter junk under 20 fps, a lot of times under 10 fps, with the lowest fps being 3 fps. Do i think the dc version would run better no not at all would matched that with in fps .. All the effects are doable on the PVR; nothing here the DC cant do.Also, the PVR has built-in hardware texture compression, which saves heaps of RAM. 


ADX ansd ASF could play Asynchronous could have 30 or 40 songs packed into asf play it while loading data so radio station problem solved

Music solved wanted to play the same game on ps2 slightly worst fps at times with much better textures not only possible but do-able.. Nothing here in any way that is not possible.

"It was in development but the hardware wasn’t powerful enough to run the game in proper 3rd person perspective. We had to wait for the PS2" this is just junk statement sorry FPS would been much more heavy..
Obbe Vermeij
@ObbeVermeij
There was no way we could fit the whole map of gta3 in PS2 memory. Streaming involves loading models from the DVD as the player moves around. This was the hardest technical challenge during the development of gta3 and was coded by Adam Fowler.

The closer models physically are on the DVD, the faster they are loaded. This is because the DVD needs to accelerate/decelerate as the head moves to a different track.

Adam tried to place models that were close together in the city also close together on the DVD. He also experimented with repeating commonly used files.

Even after placing models on the DVD efficiently, it was still not fast enough. Players would see the low detailed version of buildings and sometimes the road was missing.

At some point we couldn't speed the streaming up any further. We had no option but to slow the player down.
Right they had nothing like adx and asf the dc had where you could stream and play music at the same time.. So they had to stop start to seek right across the disc this made it harder on dvd then a gdrom..
https://twitter.com/ObbeVermeij/status/ ... DSt8g&s=19
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Super roundabout

Vice City Stories would run perfect .. all this talk it cant do proper 3rd person mode are you kidding..
comparing this
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To what the dc could do

Major amount of all the gta3 content is just audio dc has very good audio compression and video compression .. Never need to load any thing in whole form for an openworld game loading just a head ..
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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by Ian Micheal »

To back up what i said
https://twitter.com/tom_forsyth/status/ ... 7821530144
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https://www.mobygames.com/person/26777/ ... h/credits/

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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by Ryo_Hazuki »

This guy tested the game with a video card similar to the one used in the Dreamcast:


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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by MastaG »

Forks of the re3 project are still out there:
https://github.com/halpz/re3
Re3 (GTA3) was fairly complete.
The Vice City port (miami git branch) was 95% complete and has some minor bugs where you'll find some fixes for across different github forks.
The project utilizes glfw for rendering using OpenGL(ES) but there are also references to SDL2 in the code, but I don't know how far they completed that.
I'm no game dev but I guess it comes mostly down to memory management and the state of 3D libraries in KOS.
I've never seen any KOS 3D demos pushing scenery such as Sonic Adv2, Shenmue, Crazy Taxi etc..

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