GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

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Ian Micheal
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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by Ian Micheal »

Ryo_Hazuki wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 9:42 pm This guy tested the game with a video card similar to the one used in the Dreamcast:

Dreamcast gpu is a lot more powerful then this card
Neon 250
The Dreamcast's PowerVR CLX2 GPU was the basis for the PowerVR PMX1, a PC GPU released with the Neon 250 graphics card in 1999. However, the Neon 250 lacks many of the tiled rendering features of the CLX2: the tile size is halved (halving the fillrate), it lacks the CLX2's internal Z-buffering and alpha test capability with hardware front-to-back translucency sorting (further reducing the fillrate and performance, as well as requiring the Neon 250 to render a Z-buffer externally), and the tiling is partially handled by software (the CLX2 handles the tiling entirely in hardware). The Neon 250 also lacks the CLX2's latency buffering and palettized texture support while VQ texture compression performance is halved, and it has bus contention due to having a single data bus (whereas the CLX2 has two data buses).

The PowerVR2 was also optimized for the Hitachi SH-4's geometry processing capabilities (rather than for a Pentium II or III), while PC drivers and software were not optimized for the Neon 250's tiled rendering architecture (compared to Dreamcast games which were optimized for the CLX2's tiled rendering architecture). The Neon 250 thus had only a fraction of the Dreamcast CLX2's fillrate and rendering performance. The reduction in performance from the Dreamacst's CLX2 to the Neon 250 was comparable to the reduction in performance from the Sega Model 3's Real3D Pro-1000 to the Intel740.


The Neon 250 thus had only a fraction of the Dreamcast CLX2's fillrate and rendering performance.

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Ryo_Hazuki
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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by Ryo_Hazuki »

MastaG wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 2:09 am Forks of the re3 project are still out there:
https://github.com/halpz/re3
Re3 (GTA3) was fairly complete.
The Vice City port (miami git branch) was 95% complete and has some minor bugs where you'll find some fixes for across different github forks.
The project utilizes glfw for rendering using OpenGL(ES) but there are also references to SDL2 in the code, but I don't know how far they completed that.
I'm no game dev but I guess it comes mostly down to memory management and the state of 3D libraries in KOS.
I've never seen any KOS 3D demos pushing scenery such as Sonic Adv2, Shenmue, Crazy Taxi etc..
A port of Gta3 is the last barrier to be broken, to demonstrate that the Dreamcast really has the power to continue the 128 bit war.

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Ian Micheal
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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by Ian Micheal »

Ryo_Hazuki wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:52 pm
MastaG wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 2:09 am Forks of the re3 project are still out there:
https://github.com/halpz/re3
Re3 (GTA3) was fairly complete.
The Vice City port (miami git branch) was 95% complete and has some minor bugs where you'll find some fixes for across different github forks.
The project utilizes glfw for rendering using OpenGL(ES) but there are also references to SDL2 in the code, but I don't know how far they completed that.
I'm no game dev but I guess it comes mostly down to memory management and the state of 3D libraries in KOS.
I've never seen any KOS 3D demos pushing scenery such as Sonic Adv2, Shenmue, Crazy Taxi etc..
A port of Gta3 is the last barrier to be broken, to demonstrate that the Dreamcast really has the power to continue the 128 bit war.
Port started by skmp nulldc reicast creator
image (1).png
He has it running and entering in game wish him luck :)
Anyways it's running at very early stage..

Again dev that created the game said it's more then possible so i think gta3 is much overhyped dont need a dvd drive all fits on a cdr ..As for graphics nothing in it very low poly openworld is not a problem crazy taxi engine does all this not such a big deal as some make out.. Only big deal is getting sued or unwanted attention..The pvr neon is running it and is less powerful then a the pvr in the Dreamcast..NO problem for kos and current new tool chain.. You might not of seen anything like a retail game using it that's more to do with time effort and skill then the toolchain and kos..

Course it has the power we only seen 1st gen dc games lol.. Nothing really pushed the hardware more then 70% other then DOA2 which has shown it can load much better textures effects and still run 60fps with more lighting it had a ton of meat on the bone in that engine..

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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by MastaG »

Ian Micheal wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 2:50 pm
Ryo_Hazuki wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:52 pm
MastaG wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 2:09 am Forks of the re3 project are still out there:
https://github.com/halpz/re3
Re3 (GTA3) was fairly complete.
The Vice City port (miami git branch) was 95% complete and has some minor bugs where you'll find some fixes for across different github forks.
The project utilizes glfw for rendering using OpenGL(ES) but there are also references to SDL2 in the code, but I don't know how far they completed that.
I'm no game dev but I guess it comes mostly down to memory management and the state of 3D libraries in KOS.
I've never seen any KOS 3D demos pushing scenery such as Sonic Adv2, Shenmue, Crazy Taxi etc..
A port of Gta3 is the last barrier to be broken, to demonstrate that the Dreamcast really has the power to continue the 128 bit war.
Port started by skmp nulldc reicast creator
image (1).png
He has it running and entering in game wish him luck :)
Anyways it's running at very early stage..

Again dev that created the game said it's more then possible so i think gta3 is much overhyped dont need a dvd drive all fits on a cdr ..As for graphics nothing in it very low poly openworld is not a problem crazy taxi engine does all this not such a big deal as some make out.. Only big deal is getting sued or unwanted attention..The pvr neon is running it and is less powerful then a the pvr in the Dreamcast..NO problem for kos and current new tool chain.. You might not of seen anything like a retail game using it that's more to do with time effort and skill then the toolchain and kos..

Course it has the power we only seen 1st gen dc games lol.. Nothing really pushed the hardware more then 70% other then DOA2 which has shown it can load much better textures effects and still run 60fps with more lighting it had a ton of meat on the bone in that engine..
Thats great news, I wish him all the best.

I've been checking out the latest KallistiOS commits and it has been progressing very well, with both new and old users contributing to the toolchain.
You're right about the teams behind retail games of course, we cannot compare homebrew with triple A studios on big budgets.
Btw, I hope when you find the time, you'll be submitting your mpeg library to kos-ports, I just read about it on dcemulation, great work Ian!

As for gta3, vice city and even SA, the dc GPU should be more than capable to push the graphics pipeline.
I guess it mostly comes down to memory management and asset streaming.

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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by MastaG »

Btw, that screenshot shows it running on reicast.
Is that a recent thing?
Because his reicast project has been archived and isn't maintained anymore for quite some time.
If he would be testing it then flycast or demul should be the better choice right?

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VKNIGHT20
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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by VKNIGHT20 »

Wow that's nuts that a game dev got even a little bit of GTA III running on Dreamcast. The best thing I could do in KOS was make a 3D polygon house and it took 5 hours! Of course that was a while ago.

I would imagine the load times would be worse than Half-Life if he ever made serious progress in it though. Maybe the render distance could be dropped?

Will be watching this project!
John 3:16

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Ryo_Hazuki
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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by Ryo_Hazuki »

VKNIGHT20 wrote: Sat Jul 13, 2024 10:26 pm Wow that's nuts that a game dev got even a little bit of GTA III running on Dreamcast. The best thing I could do in KOS was make a 3D polygon house and it took 5 hours! Of course that was a while ago.

I would imagine the load times would be worse than Half-Life if he ever made serious progress in it though. Maybe the render distance could be dropped?

Will be watching this project!
The game's initial loading time would take a long time. But within the game the data would be transmitted directly from the disk, in the same way as it is done in the game Crazy Taxi.

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Anthony817
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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by Anthony817 »

Wow, the most wished for canceled DC game is actually getting a port before Driver 2 which would be better suited, but color me impressed to see a dev even take up this gargantuan task! Wishing him all the best with this project!
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Ian Micheal
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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by Ian Micheal »

MastaG wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 5:16 pm Btw, that screenshot shows it running on reicast.
Is that a recent thing?
Because his reicast project has been archived and isn't maintained anymore for quite some time.
If he would be testing it then flycast or demul should be the better choice right?
I think he know best flycast is reicast sure he has put more work into then what we can get..

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Re: GTA 3 for Dreamcast was really on the works

Post by cloofoofoo »

Anthony817 wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2024 2:00 pm Wow, the most wished for canceled DC game is actually getting a port before Driver 2 which would be better suited, but color me impressed to see a dev even take up this gargantuan task! Wishing him all the best with this project!
Sonicfan posted this on another forum. Seems like it's up and running

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-media-max-width="560"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/regta3dc?sr ... egta3dc</a> - Menu to ingame, with 3d models. Still VERY EARLY testing :) <a href="https://t.co/JqLdKGlKdx">pic.twitter.co ... </p>&mdash; Stefanos Kornilios Mitsis Poiitidis (@poiitidis) <a href=" 14, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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