Dreamcast Racing Wheels?

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OlivusPrime
dirty sailor
Posts: 177

Re: Dreamcast Racing Wheels?

Post#41 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:54 pm

I was hoping to do an in-depth review thread of the Thrustmaster Ferrari wheel, but in-hand it's been discouraging enough for me to have second thoughts.

The most noticeable thing is that it seems to have the same deadzone that the "official"/Agetec wheel is known for, which almost creates the impression of significant input lag during gameplay.

Seemingly one of its benefits is that it can be set to controller mode for games that don't support racing wheels, though I haven't fully tested this yet. I'm hoping to give this a go with OutRun once I get Yu Suzuki Game Works up and running.

The wheel has a long turning range, but also has a strong centering mechanism, which means you really have to grip the wheel hard to move it all the way, which can prove quite straining on your hands/wrists after a while. In theory you could offset this by reducing the wheel's range in game settings, but then this exasperates the deadzone issue.

The pedals are a nice bonus, though they're pretty stiff and end up sliding around on my carpeted floor, so I've stopped using them to focus on the gameplay better. The accelerator and brake paddles on the wheel can then be used, but their position beneath the gear paddles means that you're left to press them with your ring and little fingers, which isn't ideal for two of the primary controls.

So far I've tried it with F355 Challenge and Sega Rally 2. The former played acceptably, though it's debatable whether I'll be setting any track records, and the latter was significantly more difficult than with a controller, thanks to the deadzone throwing off the drifting mechanics.

I'm going to play around with it on a few more games, but I'm not convinced. It looks like it's back to looking into either a Mad Catz MC2, Interact Concept 4 or a Wingman SD solution, and I'm dreading how much any of these will cost.


EDIT: Played with the wheel a bit more this evening, and got to try it with OutRun on Yu Suzuki Game Works. Interestingly, that game worked on the default racing wheel mode, so I guess that game is compatible with racing wheels (can't speak for the Shenmue II version though).

This time, I directly compared driving with the regular analog stick to driving with the wheel, and the difference was night and day. The deadzone in this wheel just kills any chance it has of being the best control method for these games. I'll keep an eye out for a cheap MC2, but certainly after this comparison, the benefits of the good ol' regular controller over using a racing wheel have become clear.

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deluxux
Black Mesa
Posts: 1400

Re: Dreamcast Racing Wheels?

Post#42 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:06 pm

You should try it out with 4x4Evo Iin this game you need the dpad for shifting from 2WD-4X4HI-4x4LOW and the analog for steering, can that wheel do that?

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MoeFoh
Uber
Posts: 1036

Re: Dreamcast Racing Wheels?

Post#43 » Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:21 am

"the benefits of the good ol' regular controller over using a racing wheel have become clear."

Agree. I came to the same conclusion a while back.
“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
- Charles Bukowski

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OlivusPrime
dirty sailor
Posts: 177

Re: Dreamcast Racing Wheels?

Post#44 » Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:46 pm

deluxux wrote:You should try it out with 4x4Evo Iin this game you need the dpad for shifting from 2WD-4X4HI-4x4LOW and the analog for steering, can that wheel do that?

I don't have 4x4 Evo on hand to try it, but this wheel has both a control stick and a d-pad on its front (both clicky-style directional knobs), so there's no reason why it shouldn't work. In my opinion though, the deadzone kind of the defeats the point of using this wheel, because it certainly doesn't offer the same or greater degree of control than the regular controller.

MoeFoh wrote:"the benefits of the good ol' regular controller over using a racing wheel have become clear."

Agree. I came to the same conclusion a while back.

I think my final course of action is to try and get the benryves de-deadzone mod installed into a Racing Controller, and see how that fares. Otherwise I really don't want to splash £200 on a MC2 or Concept 4 only for them to break/not be up to standard, and it appears the Wingman SD solution adds input lag, which has a similar effect to a large deadzone.

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OlivusPrime
dirty sailor
Posts: 177

Re: Dreamcast Racing Wheels?

Post#45 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:24 pm

OlivusPrime wrote:I think my final course of action is to try and get the benryves de-deadzone mod installed into a Racing Controller, and see how that fares.

Well... I ended up giving this a go. Ben was extremely kind and assembled a circuit for me, which I then installed in a Race Controller I got for about £30. He still has a few extra circuits available, if anyone's interested in performing this mod.

The difference is staggering! The deadzone of the wheel has now been dramatically reduced, with only a very small one around the central position to account for calibration. Slight changes in rotation are now accurately captured with no delay, making the controller feel a heck of a lot more responsive.

I've used this again on Sega Rally 2, F355 Challenge and OutRun, and have really noticed the difference - in fact, I'm excited to try it with other racing games now.

In particular, Sega Rally 2 was virtually unplayable before, with the deadzone making steering corrections incredibly difficult and causing me to snake my way down the track. With the modded wheel on the other hand, I'm having a heck of a lot of fun and setting some really respectable times, and only switch to the controller on some of the more unforgiving championship years (though with some practice, these could probably be beaten with the wheel with minimal frustration).

I've also got to say that from my experience, I prefer the Race Controller to the Thrustmaster Ferrari, even under stock settings. The Race Controller is slightly heavier than the Ferrari and sits more comfortably and firmly in my lap, and the accelerator and brake paddles are in a much more manageable position on the Race Controller. My only observation is that I occasionally hit the gear change buttons by accident, but that's not currently a problem as I'm still on automatic...

Overall, very pleased with this mod - it's given me a wheel I immensely enjoy using and has provided something closer to the arcade experience in my own home.

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3style
lithium
Posts: 48

Re: Dreamcast Racing Wheels?

Post#46 » Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:29 am

OlivusPrime wrote:
OlivusPrime wrote:I think my final course of action is to try and get the benryves de-deadzone mod installed into a Racing Controller, and see how that fares.

Well... I ended up giving this a go. Ben was extremely kind and assembled a circuit for me, which I then installed in a Race Controller I got for about £30. He still has a few extra circuits available, if anyone's interested in performing this mod.

The difference is staggering! The deadzone of the wheel has now been dramatically reduced, with only a very small one around the central position to account for calibration. Slight changes in rotation are now accurately captured with no delay, making the controller feel a heck of a lot more responsive.

I've used this again on Sega Rally 2, F355 Challenge and OutRun, and have really noticed the difference - in fact, I'm excited to try it with other racing games now.

In particular, Sega Rally 2 was virtually unplayable before, with the deadzone making steering corrections incredibly difficult and causing me to snake my way down the track. With the modded wheel on the other hand, I'm having a heck of a lot of fun and setting some really respectable times, and only switch to the controller on some of the more unforgiving championship years (though with some practice, these could probably be beaten with the wheel with minimal frustration).

I've also got to say that from my experience, I prefer the Race Controller to the Thrustmaster Ferrari, even under stock settings. The Race Controller is slightly heavier than the Ferrari and sits more comfortably and firmly in my lap, and the accelerator and brake paddles are in a much more manageable position on the Race Controller. My only observation is that I occasionally hit the gear change buttons by accident, but that's not currently a problem as I'm still on automatic...

Overall, very pleased with this mod - it's given me a wheel I immensely enjoy using and has provided something closer to the arcade experience in my own home.


Thanks for the info. I also contacted Ben about the mod and he is very kind indeed and willing to assemble also one for me.
Did you also test crazy taxi btw?

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OlivusPrime
dirty sailor
Posts: 177

Re: Dreamcast Racing Wheels?

Post#47 » Tue Oct 18, 2022 2:06 pm

3style wrote:Thanks for the info. I also contacted Ben about the mod and he is very kind indeed and willing to assemble also one for me.
Did you also test crazy taxi btw?

I did indeed, I got my copy of Crazy Taxi last week and had a chance to try it out with the wheel.

I think it's one of those scenarios where the stock controller is inherently more suited to the gameplay than the wheel - executing a crazy dash is easier and feels more natural using the right trigger and one of the face buttons on the controller, as opposed to using the accelerator paddle with one of the face buttons on the wheel.

That having been said, it's certainly not frustrating or impossible to play, and the mod certainly makes steering feel more natural than I imagine it would have been on the stock wheel.

EDIT: I've worked out what it is that's throwing me off when using the wheel with Crazy Taxi - the lack of vibration. I've noticed that using the controller with the vibration pack feels more natural mainly because the vibration is such a good indicator of manoeuvres being executed properly (a rare instance of the Dreamcast vibration pack being used well). Obviously the Race Controller only has one VM slot which doesn't fit a vibration pack, and Crazy Taxi requires a VMU to be inserted at all times, so I'm curious as to whether the wheel can be modded to accept two VM inputs.
Last edited by OlivusPrime on Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Alex_DC
dark night
Posts: 56

Re: Dreamcast Racing Wheels?

Post#48 » Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:55 am

I wonder how much of a modding project it would be to get a set of pedals to work with the DC Race Controller. I had a couple of new-in-box Race controllers not so long ago, but ended up selling them on as (aside from the deadline issue of the stock unit) those paddles for the analog triggers were just such a poor ergonomic choice.

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OlivusPrime
dirty sailor
Posts: 177

Re: Dreamcast Racing Wheels?

Post#49 » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:51 pm

Alex_DC wrote:I wonder how much of a modding project it would be to get a set of pedals to work with the DC Race Controller. I had a couple of new-in-box Race controllers not so long ago, but ended up selling them on as (aside from the deadline issue of the stock unit) those paddles for the analog triggers were just such a poor ergonomic choice.


The US Race Controller had a port for pedals, but Sega never released any that were compatible. Ben actually tried experimenting with the circuitry for them and discovered some analog inputs, but they don't seem to be mapped to the accelerator/brakes and cause all kinds of effects in different games.

colgate
Doom
Posts: 185

Re: Dreamcast Racing Wheels?

Post#50 » Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:00 pm

That's really cool, this is something I always wondered. Is there a place where I can buy the de-dead zone board already populated?

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