Retrofighters StrikerDC Wireless Limited Edition in Black - Only 2,000 being made

[MoeFoh]

About the second thumbstick. The WingmanSD uses the right analog stick for face button input. Not analog, but useful for FPS games. You can even swap the two thumbsticks. And with the latest firmware, you can disable the deadzone implementation on the WingmanSD.

[fafadou]

I requested retro bit, for second thumbstick, but not sure they have planned to do it...

[Snake79]

As much as a second thumb stick would be a welcome addition, I really don't see any manufacturer making one as it was never utilised for games made at the time because no such controller existed for the system. Having the ability to map the face buttons to the second stick would be useful for certain titles though.

The controller Retrobit is working on is closer to the original design (which could be a good or bad thing depending on your point of view), with a few modifications to the thumbstick, d-pad and cable placement on the wired version. It's a different approach to the Retrofighters design. Sure, none are perfect but they are at least developing and making them for what is a very small niche market. You never know, if they sell well, they may look at making a revised version at some point. In an ideal world a modern DC controller would be wireless, have a second thumb stick and a VMU slot in the controller, but due to either technical limitations or cost it hasn't been done yet (the Dreamconn+ being the exception but that is custom built, not mass produced).

I know a few of you have had issues with the wired StrikerDC controller. I have three (grey, red and black) and have not had any issues wih them. I was concerned about the triggers breaking but so far they have been okay.

I have found a retailer who has the blue wireless StrikerDC and I've ordered one to go with the black.

[megavolt85]

As much as a second thumb stick would be a welcome addition, I really don't see any manufacturer making one as it was never utilised for games made at the time because no such controller existed for the system.

The creators of Quake 3 Arena and Unreal Tournament do not agree with you, so they added support for a second analog stick back in those years

[DCGX]

I was waiting for this response... Figured it would be coming. It's fine. I guess I deserve it. I had hoped that my contributions to the community would've spared me, but whatever. Bring it on. lol.

First of all, even if I had an actual contractual obligation to refund people from Kickstarter (I don't), AND I had the money to refund everyone, that money was distributed about 7-ways among an entire team (plus a bunch was taken out for taxes plus KS took a cut), and I wouldn't be refunding you everything personally out of my own pocket. I just happen to be the only member of the team who has had the dignity or courage to continue contributing to this community or trying to make amends in any manner, so I'm the only one catching any shit for it.

Secondly... I actually wish to god I could afford to refund you all, because I don't actually give a shit that I'm not contractually obligated to do so. The truth is that you guys supported me and believed in the work I was doing, and that means something to me... But I just cannot afford it, nor can I justify making my wife and now two children go broke for a failed joint venture that happened almost a decade ago now.

I'm truly, sincerely sorry. No, I don't actually expect it to mean anything to you, but it's true. You can feel free to slander me, insult me, drag my name through the dirt, fling shit at me, and bring it up over every post I make, but it's not going to change anything. I'm not going anywhere, and it certainly won't dissuade me from voicing an opinion that the Dreamcast deserves a second analog stick.

Believe me, though, when I say that I have been working to atone for my shortcomings to the DC community. I've been working nonstop to give back to this scene by supporting the entirety of the homebrew community and becoming an active developer for KOS. In just under a year, I have become the biggest contributor to the KOS repository only beneath the actual owner/maintainer with a decade's worth of commits. If you don't believe me or want to see my work and contributions, you can see every single one of them here: https://github.com/KallistiOS/KallistiO ... gyrovorbis

As I said, though, I expect it to change nothing. I fully accept that doing back-end, low-level SDK work is not going to be as hip or trendy or easily appreciable as working on something flashy like a game... But I'm at peace with it, because I know damn well that it's just as, if not more important, and now I'm supporting the entirety of the scene instead of just my own selfish single product. I can look at myself in the mirror just fine with that.

You're right. That means nothing to me, because one thing does not equate to the other; they are separate from each other. But I understand that's how you're rationalizing things to yourself. And that's the crux of this whole thing. It's always centered on you. It always has been. You're trying to make yourself whole, not the backers and not the community; to make yourself feel better.

It's like when someone goes to jail for a crime against an individual, something that changed that individual's life for the worse (and no, this is not a direct comparison obviously), and the person that committed the crime volunteers picking up trash when they're out of jail. Ok, good, that's something for the community. But in the end, it fixes nothing of the original crime.

And again, you're right: I will keep bringing it up. Because that's all we're left with. Not our contributions, not a product, not a game, tools...maybe(?) Because money aside, I don't actually believe when you say anything, because you've proven so much, so hard and for so long that we shouldn't trust you

I don't trust you.

You made bad choices. You made bad excuses for those bad choices. You're free to justify those, and we're free to remind you.

[DCGX]

As much as a second thumb stick would be a welcome addition, I really don't see any manufacturer making one as it was never utilised for games made at the time because no such controller existed for the system.

The creators of Quake 3 Arena and Unreal Tournament do not agree with you, so they added support for a second analog stick back in those years

That hardly justifies adding a second stick, especially since anyone playing those two games on Dreamcast nowadays probably use a mouse and keyboard anyway.

I do agree with Snake79, though, that, for games that use the face buttons for movement or looking, if they can be mapped to a second stick, that would be amazing. If a hardware company can parse that, that would definitely make a second stick on a DC pad worth it.

[megavolt85]

That hardly justifies adding a second stick, especially since anyone playing those two games on Dreamcast nowadays probably use a mouse and keyboard anyway.

Here we are not talking about whether someone needs it in these two games, but about whether there was support for a second analog stick in official games.
The statement that since a controller with two sticks was not released, games do not support it, is not true.
for example, a VMU for 1800 blocks has also never been released, but this does not prevent some games from working with such a large VMU

P.S. I didn’t have time to check all the games, I just checked four FPS and two of them have support for the second stick, who knows, maybe there are more games with support for the second stick

[Falco Girgis]

I was waiting for this response... Figured it would be coming. It's fine. I guess I deserve it. I had hoped that my contributions to the community would've spared me, but whatever. Bring it on. lol.

First of all, even if I had an actual contractual obligation to refund people from Kickstarter (I don't), AND I had the money to refund everyone, that money was distributed about 7-ways among an entire team (plus a bunch was taken out for taxes plus KS took a cut), and I wouldn't be refunding you everything personally out of my own pocket. I just happen to be the only member of the team who has had the dignity or courage to continue contributing to this community or trying to make amends in any manner, so I'm the only one catching any shit for it.

Secondly... I actually wish to god I could afford to refund you all, because I don't actually give a shit that I'm not contractually obligated to do so. The truth is that you guys supported me and believed in the work I was doing, and that means something to me... But I just cannot afford it, nor can I justify making my wife and now two children go broke for a failed joint venture that happened almost a decade ago now.

I'm truly, sincerely sorry. No, I don't actually expect it to mean anything to you, but it's true. You can feel free to slander me, insult me, drag my name through the dirt, fling shit at me, and bring it up over every post I make, but it's not going to change anything. I'm not going anywhere, and it certainly won't dissuade me from voicing an opinion that the Dreamcast deserves a second analog stick.

Believe me, though, when I say that I have been working to atone for my shortcomings to the DC community. I've been working nonstop to give back to this scene by supporting the entirety of the homebrew community and becoming an active developer for KOS. In just under a year, I have become the biggest contributor to the KOS repository only beneath the actual owner/maintainer with a decade's worth of commits. If you don't believe me or want to see my work and contributions, you can see every single one of them here: https://github.com/KallistiOS/KallistiO ... gyrovorbis

As I said, though, I expect it to change nothing. I fully accept that doing back-end, low-level SDK work is not going to be as hip or trendy or easily appreciable as working on something flashy like a game... But I'm at peace with it, because I know damn well that it's just as, if not more important, and now I'm supporting the entirety of the scene instead of just my own selfish single product. I can look at myself in the mirror just fine with that.

You're right. That means nothing to me, because one thing does not equate to the other; they are separate from each other. But I understand that's how you're rationalizing things to yourself. And that's the crux of this whole thing. It's always centered on you. It always has been. You're trying to make yourself whole, not the backers and not the community; to make yourself feel better.

It's like when someone goes to jail for a crime against an individual, something that changed that individual's life for the worse (and no, this is not a direct comparison obviously), and the person that committed the crime volunteers picking up trash when they're out of jail. Ok, good, that's something for the community. But in the end, it fixes nothing of the original crime.

And again, you're right: I will keep bringing it up. Because that's all we're left with. Not our contributions, not a product, not a game, tools...maybe(?) Because money aside, I don't actually believe when you say anything, because you've proven so much, so hard and for so long that we shouldn't trust you

I don't trust you.

You made bad choices. You made bad excuses for those bad choices. You're free to justify those, and we're free to remind you.

You sure are, as I literally said. You are free to waste your time reminding me every single post. Every single day, if that's what makes you happy.

But you don't believe what I'm saying, yet I literally posted a year's worth of commits to the KOS repo proving I've been doing everything from fixing obscure bugs that have plagued every homebrew release for the last 20 years to implementing features that even the commercial homebrew devikts didn't have? K. Don't believe me. You're certainly free not to.

...and I'm now free to move on to actually giving a shit about the Dreamcast and trying to get it a second analog stick... I've said my bit.

That hardly justifies adding a second stick, especially since anyone playing those two games on Dreamcast nowadays probably use a mouse and keyboard anyway.

Here we are not talking about whether someone needs it in these two games, but about whether there was support for a second analog stick in official games.
The statement that since a controller with two sticks was not released, games do not support it, is not true.
for example, a VMU for 1800 blocks has also never been released, but this does not prevent some games from working with such a large VMU

P.S. I didn’t have time to check all the games, I just checked four FPS and two of them have support for the second stick, who knows, maybe there are more games with support for the second stick

He's right. There ARE commercial games that are utilizing things like this, as has been proven his work and by DreamShell. The truth is all of this stuff was in the Maple spec on day 1, and games were free to utilize them or plan for a future where they would be available... From a programming perspective, it's absolutely trivial to use that second analog stick. You're already getting its state every frame when you query for the state of the controller every frame in a game... Honestly, I do wonder all the time if there are more games that were programmed to take advantage of it that we aren't even aware of...

[MoeFoh]

From what I understand, the Dreamcast Maracas use the 2nd analog input.

https://segaretro.org/Samba_de_Amigo_Maracas_Controller

And for your bedtime reading here's the US Patent:

[Falco Girgis]

From what I understand, the Dreamcast Maracas use the 2nd analog input.

https://segaretro.org/Samba_de_Amigo_Maracas_Controller

Yes, this is true! Each maraca maps to each analog stick.