Yabause 0.9.11 released

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VasiliyRS
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Yabause 0.9.11 released

Post#1 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:19 am

After two years new Yabause 0.9.11 version is released.
But speed of Dreamcast port is still very slow.
This is 3 years old video but that game still runs the same:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUCAfVW1pxk[/youtube]

Changelog:

Code: Select all

0.9.10 -> 0.9.11
 general:
  - Now using CMake as the default build system.
    For now, autotools based build and "custom" build systems are still supported.
  - New Cocoa port
  - Added a dynamic recompiling SH2 core for x86 and ARM
  - New SCSP implementation
  - Major update of the software renderer from the yabause-rr team
  - Added an option to allow to execute from the cache
  - Improvements to the OpenGL renderer
 carbon port:
  - Improvements
 gtk port:
  - Added command line option to enable/disable frame skipping / limiting.
  - Added frame skipping/limiting configuration in settings.
  - Added --autoload command line option
  - Vdp2 layers can be toggled from the Vdp2 debug window
 psp port:
  - Added support for Media Engine CPU
  - Improvements to the PSP port
 qt port:
  - Added command line support
 wii port:
  - Merged some stuff from the wiibrew fork, mostly related to SH2 emulation
 windows port:
  - Fixed the XBox controller driver
  - Fixed the "open iso then cancel bug"


Get what you want here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/yabause ... se/0.9.11/

Dreamcast port is maintained by BlueCrab from dcemulation but he has no time to work on it that's why i opened a thread at yabause foeum asking to work on dc port http://forums.yabause.org/index.php?topic=6708 you can support me.

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BlueCrab
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Re: Yabause 0.9.11 released

Post#2 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:45 pm

I don't think you'll find much in the way of anyone volunteering. Remember, the Saturn is a whole heck of a lot more complex/powerful than the PSX, and nobody except the bleem! guys ever got PSX emulation anywhere near full speed.

As I've always said, Yabause for the Dreamcast is basically a fancy tech demo. If you don't like the work I've put into it, don't use it -- plain as that. I wouldn't hold your breath for someone else stepping up to the plate either, especially if you make unreasonable demands.

Believe me, if it was "easy" to get Yabause to be fast on the Dreamcast, I'd have done it a long time ago. Even if the whole thing was written in hand-optimized assembly (good luck with that on the video and sound emulation), it still quite possibly wouldn't be full-speed.

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Anthony817
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Re: Yabause 0.9.11 released

Post#3 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:51 pm

BlueCrab wrote:As I've always said, Yabause for the Dreamcast is basically a fancy tech demo. If you don't like the work I've put into it, don't use it -- plain as that.


I really don't think he meant you any disrespect BlueCrab, why would you take it that way?

He just knows you are most likely busy with real life things, and he would like to see somebody else pick up the flag is all. ;)
Image

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BlueCrab
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Re: Yabause 0.9.11 released

Post#4 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:11 am

Anthony817 wrote:
BlueCrab wrote:As I've always said, Yabause for the Dreamcast is basically a fancy tech demo. If you don't like the work I've put into it, don't use it -- plain as that.


I really don't think he meant you any disrespect BlueCrab, why would you take it that way?

He just knows you are most likely busy with real life things, and he would like to see somebody else pick up the flag is all. ;)
Perhaps he didn't, but each time I've read the post it still seems that way. I don't want to seem like a mean person, so maybe its just the way I'm reading it.

Let me put it this way, Yabause will never be full-speed, or anywhere close on the Dreamcast (without significant rewriting/hacks/etc that are against the spirit of the project). I've stated that basically since the beginning, and each time I read a post complaining about the speed I get kinda upset about it (especially when I read it multiple times in different places from the same person).

As I said in my earlier post, the Saturn is more complex than the PSX, and the only way the Dreamcast got a full-speed PSX emulator was in the limited fashion that bleem! provides, and as a commercial venture where the guys working on it did so full-time, basically. I really doubt there's anyone out there that's willing to put that kind of work into emulating the Saturn on the Dreamcast, especially at this point when there's no chance of making any money to fund it as a full-time venture.

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VasiliyRS
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Re: Yabause 0.9.11 released

Post#5 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:51 am

First, what i posted is not related to you BlueCrab, honestly what i needed from you to compile last version, i know what project you are involved in i know what you did and what you do and of course i respect you for that as Anthony already pointed. What i wrote is for other developers i whated to put their attention on dc port because pc version seems like stable already.
Let me show several screenshots, it's crappy 'cause my tvtuner cant handle pal60 it looks much better on tv even via a/v:
Legend of Oasis:
ImageImageImage
Shinobi Legions:
ImageImageImage
life bar shows correctly it's just my tvtuner is sucks.
Awesome, isnt it? No gui bugs, it looks perfect but i hope you understand my disappointment of playing speed. When i see it all i can say is 'i want to play it!' But i cannot... I will try and keep asking other peeps to work on dc port, why ? - i'm just dreamcast fan, that's it.

uglybuddy6
undertow
Posts: 28

Re: Yabause 0.9.11 released

Post#6 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:49 pm

This amazes me that somebody got saturn games even run on the dreamcast period. I bet if a overclocked dreamcast was used and a game that doesn't demand to much it would run at a pretty decent speed. See with bleem they realized that you couldn't run all games so they focused on the most popular games and tweaked the emulator specifically for those games. If somebody had the time to do that with the most popular saturn games i bet they would run at a decent speed. The dreamcast is a amazing machine and for somebody to get saturn games to run on it just shows its power and potential. To be honest i bet a few PS2 games could potentially be able to run on the dreamcast.

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Alec1382
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Re: Yabause 0.9.11 released

Post#7 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:53 pm

uglybuddy6 wrote:This amazes me that somebody got saturn games even run on the dreamcast period. I bet if a overclocked dreamcast was used and a game that doesn't demand to much it would run at a pretty decent speed. See with bleem they realized that you couldn't run all games so they focused on the most popular games and tweaked the emulator specifically for those games. If somebody had the time to do that with the most popular saturn games i bet they would run at a decent speed. The dreamcast is a amazing machine and for somebody to get saturn games to run on it just shows its power and potential. To be honest i bet a few PS2 games could potentially be able to run on the dreamcast.


I second that. To my understanding, a system has to virtually replicate the original chipset of what it's emulating. If that's so, then it's an incredible feat, considering the Saturn's complex architecture, with its 3 main processors.

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BlueCrab
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Re: Yabause 0.9.11 released

Post#8 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:42 pm

Remember that the Saturn is a VERY complex system (one of the reasons why it had a general lack of 3rd party support in the US). The best emulators available for Windows require at least a 1-2GHz processor to even try to run emulated Saturn games at full speed, and many of those emulators have large tracts of highly-optimized x86 Assembly to get that speed (note that Yabause is written almost entirely in highly-portable C).

If someone wanted to take an actual approach to trying to get a Saturn emulator running anywhere close to full-speed on the Dreamcast, you'd probably have to make a lot of concessions. For instance, VDP2 emulation would have to be drastically simplified and made in a way that many games either wouldn't work right or would look horrible. VDP1 emulation would be doable at a decent speed, by mapping VDP1 sprites onto PVR sprites on the Dreamcast (Yabause for the Dreamcast already does that). These types of changes would probably make almost all the 2D games (which really was the strong point of the Saturn, IMO) completely unplayable (since they rely heavily on VDP2).

Also, you'd probably have to write the whole thing from the ground up in highly optimized SuperH Assembly. There are a few parts of Yabause's Dreamcast port in SuperH assembly (such as the low-level CD interface and the (incomplete, unused currently) SH2 dynarec that I wrote -- although that more generates machine code than assembly, but that's really irrelevant). However, to have any chance at full-speed, you'd probably need to write EVERYTHING in highly optimized assembly, which there are very few people around in the homebrew community that have the skill to do so at this point, most likely. Then you'd need to have the massive amount of time to actually sit down and do that coding. Not something you're likely going to find anyone to do these days, unfortunately -- especially not on a homebrew project that they have no chance of ever getting paid for.

Even with all of this, I have my doubts as to whether you'd ever get full-speed, even on a few games. There's a limit to how much overclocking your system will help, because I doubt you'd be able to get a stable system running at more than 400MHz. That's still nowhere near the level that is required by emulators running on Windows.

Keep in mind that even after all this time, there isn't a full-speed emulator for the SNES or the Genesis on the Dreamcast that the homebrew community put out. Genesis Plus DC (with BlackAura's hardware renderer) came pretty close, and actually hit the mark on many games -- but made many of the same concessions that I've spoken to above in relation to the Saturn. Several games either will not work properly or will look so bad that they're unplayable with that type of rendering. DreamSNES also came pretty close on the SNES front, and with some tweaking was able to play some games at full-speed (especially PAL releases). The Playstation, which is vastly simpler to emulate for most cases than the Saturn (from my experience) has never had a homebrew community effort to even try to put forth a full-speed emulator. Bleem for Dreamcast is quite awesome (and of course did run full-speed), but then again the guys who wrote it were much better at this kind of stuff than pretty much anyone in the homebrew community today. Also, they did this for their full-time jobs, so that tends to help too. ;)

I'd honestly love to see someone prove me wrong and put out a full-speed Saturn emulator for the Dreamcast. I just don't see it happening though. You're much more likely to see a full-speed Genesis or SNES emulator, as they should be doable with enough time and effort.

TL;DR: Even with overclocking, I wouldn't expect to see a full-speed Saturn emulator for the Dreamcast, period.

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VasiliyRS
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Re: Yabause 0.9.11 released

Post#9 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:48 pm

Keep in mind that even after all this time, there isn't a full-speed emulator for the SNES or the Genesis on the Dreamcast that the homebrew community put out.

Have you seen 4ALL series by Chui? Latest gen4all runs very good http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL36E1DCF4A0B3AA02

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BlueCrab
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Posts: 682

Re: Yabause 0.9.11 released

Post#10 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:04 pm

From what I've heard, Genesis Plus DC and its hardware renderer are still faster than GensDC. That said, I've not looked at GensDC itself, as I generally don't feel any real need to emulate things on the Dreamcast when I can play the original console just as easily (and I have them hooked up to the same TV). ;)

Sure, I work on emulators, but that's because they're very interesting programming related projects. I rarely use emulators these days, even if I did write them. ;)

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