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very much my point. the 8 synergistic processing elements, is only one of the things that make the ps3 more advanced. Xbox fan boys won't admit to it that their console is weak compared to that of a ps3.

Anthony817 wrote:Weak hardware hardly buddy. Have you seen Battlefield 3 with the HD texture pack on 360? Best looking console game in history.

Plus, the 360 and PS3 chips were made by the same manufacture. IBM, so they are extremely similar in what they can do. PS3 isn't THAT far ahead of the 360, not by a long shot.

Both processors are stripped down and modified versions of the IBM 970 PowerPC.

Cell Processor

* One general purpose PPE core that is used for the OS and the game application.
* 512 MB total memory on 2 buses which can be accesed directly only by the PPE core. 256 MB of processor main memory and 256 MB of memory used by GPU.
* 512 KB L2 cache for the PPE.
* 32 KB L1 instruction cache and 32 KB L1 data cache for the PPE.
* 7 specialized SPE cores. One is used for the OS leaving 6 for the game application.
* 256KB SRAM per SPE. No common memory between SPEs and SPE cannot access the PPEs main memory directly but the PPE can access the SPEs memory directly.
* Communications between SPE memory or to the PPE memory is performed via the Element Interconnect Bus (EIB) by either accessing ports or via DMA.
* SPEs do not have branch prediction capability.

Xenos Processor

* 3 General purpose PPE cores that are used for the OS and game application.
* 512 MB main memory that is shared by all three cores and GPU.
* 1 MB of L2 cache that is shared by the 3 cores (333 KB per core average).
* 32 KB L1 instruction cache and 32 KB data cache for each core.
* 2 Hardware threads per core.

altecgodofchaos wrote:very much my point. the 8 synergistic processing elements, is only one of the things that make the ps3 more advanced. Xbox fan boys won't admit to it that their console is weak compared to that of a ps3.

But there is a downfall to this design. All 6 SPEs rely on the single PPE that controls them. They can not do what the PPE is used for in games (which is used to run most of the game code). When the PPE gets bogged down it it limits what it can push to the SPEs. The PS3 isnt as far advanced to the 360 as PS3 fanboys wish to believe. You know those performance numbers for both systems are bull crap, at best each system can only achieve 1/2 to 3/4 of those actual numbers. and the fact that thes CPUs are in order execution hurts them even more. both 360 and PS3 have their pros/cons. They are far closer to each other then what most people believe. The 360 GPU is far mor powerful then the PS3s GPU, The 360 doesnt have to touch any of it main ram for video ram but is can if needed.

Favrenation wrote:The ps3 still has more cores and better gpu than 360. Not to mention blueray which hold way more data then 360. Suprised skryim would fit on one disc as it was rumored to fit on 3 discs.

Check the specs, the gpu is worse.

altecgodofchaos wrote:very much my point. the 8 synergistic processing elements, is only one of the things that make the ps3 more advanced. Xbox fan boys won't admit to it that their console is weak compared to that of a ps3.

The ps3 has a better cpu than the 360, but its gpu is a lot worse. This means some of the cpu cores need to work with the gpu to match or exceed the level of graphics that 360 puts out. Theoretically it could probably have better looking games, but I'm sure it's a lot more difficult for developers to program their games in this manner. Just because the hardware is more powerful, doesn't mean the games are gonna look any better. Just look at the atari jaguar..

Anyway the 360 was released a full year earlier than ps3, so you would expect it to perform worse. The fact that the games look so similar is probably an indication that the 360, as a game console, was designed better; that is aside from the initial heating issues. People don't seem to realize how quickly hardware gets outdated; game consoles are no exception. They are usually pretty advanced for the first year or two, then after that it is already surpassed by consumer PC hardware. Both of these consoles struggle to even run most games beyond even 720p 30fps. Many of the games which you think are running at uber resolutions, are in fact upscaled.
Here are some native resolutions for some games just to give you an idea..

Viva Pinata 1280x720p 2xAA
COD4 (360) 1024×600p 2xAA
COD4 (PS3) 1024×600p 2xAA
Def Jam: Icon (PS3) 1152×648
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance (PS3) 1920×1080 FullHD
Oblivion (360): 1024×600 (PS3 version is full 720p)
ICO (PS2): 512×224p (less than Tekken on PS1 at 512×240)
VF5 (PS3 720p): 1024×1024 (same as 360)
VF5 (PS3 1080p): 1024×768
Full Auto 2: 1920×1080 AA 4x, bad framerate - PS3
NBA Street: 1920×1080 AA 4x (30-60fps) - 360
LocoRoco Cocoreccho 1920×1080 MSAA 2x -PS3
Tony Hawk Project 8: 1040×584 AA - 360
Tony Hawk Project 8: 1280×720 - PS3
Virtua Tennis 3: 1920×1080 AA 2x - PS3, 360
XMB: 1920×1080p - PS3
Dashboard: 1280×720p - 360
Perfect Dark Zero: 1138×640p - 360
Halo 3: 1152×640p - 360
Call of Duty 3: 1120×630p 360
Ninja Gaiden Sigma: 1280×720p PS3
Project Gotham Racing 3: 1024×600 360
Tomb Raider: 1024×600 360
NBA 07: 1920×1080 - PS3
NBA 08: 1920×1080 - PS3
Tony Hawk Proving Ground: 600p - PS3
Tony Hawk Proving Ground: 720p - 360
GRAW2: 720p - PS3
GRAW2: 720p AA 2x - 360
Super Rub a Dub: 1600×1080 - PS3
GTHD: 1440×1080 - PS3
Super Stardust HD: 1280×1080 - PS3
Skate: 1536×864 - PS3
Skate: 1280×720 AA - 360
Bioshock: 1280×720 - 360
Harry Potter: 1280×720 MSAA 2x PS3 ?
Pixel Junk Racers: 1920×1080 PS3
Heavenly Sword: 1280×720 AA 4x PS3
Blast Factor Demo: 1920×1080 PS3
The Darkness Demo: 1024×576 PS3

Some of those games can't even be considered HD.

We are also nearing the end of this gen. I'm sure it won't last more than 2-3 years longer, so who cares. They are both outdated pieces of hardware.

I love my Dreamcast first and foremost. I love the controller. To me, the controller is everything, and the Xbox is a clear evolution of the Dreamcast triggers, and the placement of the analog stick and face buttons are what make me like it.

The 360 has many Dreamcast like qualities, so that's why I gravitate towards it. The controller is number 1 for FPS and racing games, the 2 genres I love more than anything else.

This reminds me of the Dreamcast vs PS2 discussions. They were closer to each others specs than they were to the Gamecube and Xbox. The Xbox and Gamecuse did things the DC and PS2 could only wish of doing.

When you have 2 systems released so close to each other, they tend to be pretty close specwise.

There were things the PS2 did better than DC, CPU and DVD were 1. But the Dreamcast clearly had better video ram. 8mb vs the PS2's 4. Also, the Dreamcast had 480P VGA resolution and Anti-Aliasing for a much clearer picture than the PS2.

I don't want this to turn into a flame war. We are all better than that. I am just trying to say they all do things better than each other, so neither are perfect, they both have pros and cons.

Also, the Dreamcast had 480P VGA resolution and Anti-Aliasing for a much clearer picture than the PS2.

The PS2 and all the last gen systems were capable at running through 480p. The all used component cables instead of the dreamcasts vga though. The original xbox could play a lot of games in 720p-1080i. The ps2 had one game like that and both could handle widescreen with certain games. I would have loved to see a dreamcast game at least upconvert a game to 1080p because I think D-sub cab do way more than that. Component cables are limited to 1080i.

Favrenation wrote:

Also, the Dreamcast had 480P VGA resolution and Anti-Aliasing for a much clearer picture than the PS2.

The PS2 and all the last gen systems were capable at running through 480p. The all used component cables instead of the dreamcasts vga though. The original xbox could play a lot of games in 720p-1080i. The ps2 had one game like that and both could handle widescreen with certain games. I would have loved to see a dreamcast game at least upconvert a game to 1080p because I think D-sub cab do way more than that. Component cables are limited to 1080i.

Gran turismo 4 supported 480p/1080i

Nvidia was better graphics unit than ATI imo. If only Microsoft didn't fuck up back in the early 2000's with Nvidia they would of still used their gpus. Microsoft tried to get a large discounts on the gpu chips without Nvidia knowing, and they got into a lawsuit. Nvidia in the end ended up giving them the rest of the batch of chips until 2005 when they stop manufacturing The Original Xbox. Microsoft is known for many problems and issues, and thats why I won't buy a Microsoft console ever again. and Sony has been a well known company since 1945, while Microsoft has only been around since the 70's.

brourke228 wrote:

Favrenation wrote:The ps3 still has more cores and better gpu than 360. Not to mention blueray which hold way more data then 360. Suprised skryim would fit on one disc as it was rumored to fit on 3 discs.

Check the specs, the gpu is worse.

altecgodofchaos wrote:very much my point. the 8 synergistic processing elements, is only one of the things that make the ps3 more advanced. Xbox fan boys won't admit to it that their console is weak compared to that of a ps3.

The ps3 has a better cpu than the 360, but its gpu is a lot worse. This means some of the cpu cores need to work with the gpu to match or exceed the level of graphics that 360 puts out. Theoretically it could probably have better looking games, but I'm sure it's a lot more difficult for developers to program their games in this manner. Just because the hardware is more powerful, doesn't mean the games are gonna look any better. Just look at the atari jaguar..

Anyway the 360 was released a full year earlier than ps3, so you would expect it to perform worse. The fact that the games look so similar is probably an indication that the 360, as a game console, was designed better; that is aside from the initial heating issues. People don't seem to realize how quickly hardware gets outdated; game consoles are no exception. They are usually pretty advanced for the first year or two, then after that it is already surpassed by consumer PC hardware. Both of these consoles struggle to even run most games beyond even 720p 30fps. Many of the games which you think are running at uber resolutions, are in fact upscaled.
Here are some native resolutions for some games just to give you an idea..

Viva Pinata 1280x720p 2xAA
COD4 (360) 1024×600p 2xAA
COD4 (PS3) 1024×600p 2xAA
Def Jam: Icon (PS3) 1152×648
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance (PS3) 1920×1080 FullHD
Oblivion (360): 1024×600 (PS3 version is full 720p)
ICO (PS2): 512×224p (less than Tekken on PS1 at 512×240)
VF5 (PS3 720p): 1024×1024 (same as 360)
VF5 (PS3 1080p): 1024×768
Full Auto 2: 1920×1080 AA 4x, bad framerate - PS3
NBA Street: 1920×1080 AA 4x (30-60fps) - 360
LocoRoco Cocoreccho 1920×1080 MSAA 2x -PS3
Tony Hawk Project 8: 1040×584 AA - 360
Tony Hawk Project 8: 1280×720 - PS3
Virtua Tennis 3: 1920×1080 AA 2x - PS3, 360
XMB: 1920×1080p - PS3
Dashboard: 1280×720p - 360
Perfect Dark Zero: 1138×640p - 360
Halo 3: 1152×640p - 360
Call of Duty 3: 1120×630p 360
Ninja Gaiden Sigma: 1280×720p PS3
Project Gotham Racing 3: 1024×600 360
Tomb Raider: 1024×600 360
NBA 07: 1920×1080 - PS3
NBA 08: 1920×1080 - PS3
Tony Hawk Proving Ground: 600p - PS3
Tony Hawk Proving Ground: 720p - 360
GRAW2: 720p - PS3
GRAW2: 720p AA 2x - 360
Super Rub a Dub: 1600×1080 - PS3
GTHD: 1440×1080 - PS3
Super Stardust HD: 1280×1080 - PS3
Skate: 1536×864 - PS3
Skate: 1280×720 AA - 360
Bioshock: 1280×720 - 360
Harry Potter: 1280×720 MSAA 2x PS3 ?
Pixel Junk Racers: 1920×1080 PS3
Heavenly Sword: 1280×720 AA 4x PS3
Blast Factor Demo: 1920×1080 PS3
The Darkness Demo: 1024×576 PS3

Some of those games can't even be considered HD.

We are also nearing the end of this gen. I'm sure it won't last more than 2-3 years longer, so who cares. They are both outdated pieces of hardware.