Replica PAL Dreamcast cases - Opinions required!

[Joushuu_]

Hi everyone,

My name is Joushuu. I've just joined here today to chat with you all about a project that I'm currently working on.

A few months ago, one of my Saturn cardboard cases disintegrated and that got me thinking about how to replace this. I came to the conclusion that while I can just make a replica cardboard cover, I would also have to take another case apart to fix this. This made me realise that eventually, we will run out of cheap cases for Saturn and Dreamcast to replace our broken ones. I started investigating the possibility of getting replicas made and got some quotes from a local plastics factory to create the moulds but I want to find out whether there's interest in the community to buy these if I produce these units.

I'm currently working on the Saturn cases, the Gen 2 Plastic ones to begin with and the cardboard variant being developed shortly after, but with Dreamcast, the costs of the moulds are hindering me as the case would require three of them (Front, middle, and back of the case). Just to remind you all, these will be replica PAL cases.

So these are the questions I wish to pose to the community to help me gauge the communities interest in this.

1. Since these won't be officially licenced by SEGA, I will be removing the Dreamcast wording on the side of the case and replacing them with Reproduction. Would this be an issue? (If so, can you recommend an alternative?) I'm wanting to do so there's a means of differentiating these cases from authentic ones. Other than that, nothing else will be changed. The case itself will be a true 1:1 replica.

2. How much would you pay for a single case? (In pounds and euros) This is so I can get a rough idea of what the community would be willing to spend and I can work out the numbers of how many are needed to cover costs. Obviously, there will be a discount for bulk purchases as well.

3. The plastics SEGA used were very cheap, nasty and brittle. I can get the exact same plastics, but obviously, this will run the risk of them just breaking again. I can use a stronger plastic but this will increase the price slightly. Would anyone be ok with paying a little extra for a stronger case?

4. Would you be willing to back a Kickstarter campaign if I went down this avenue for funding? This campaign would only be for the Dreamcast cases, as I'm personally funding the Saturn cases myself.

Thank you for reading this long post. I've been working on this project quietly for a while now and am happy to be in a position where I can make it a reality. Please feel free to ask additional questions and I will do my best to answer them.

[mstar]

1) I'd just remove the "Dreamcast" lettering, keeping the recession empty.
2) about 5€ - ideally less

Pixelheart is selling the original ones here, so you can get an idea:

https://www.pixelheart.eu/produit/dreamcast-box-1x/
https://www.pixelheart.eu/produit/dreamcast-box-5x/
https://www.pixelheart.eu/produit/dreamcast-box-10x/

Seems they still have quite a lot in stock, doesn't look like they've been raided - mind you, they're available since... not sure, 3 months?

3) as long as the color is the same, sure, why not - price point... see above...

4) i guess so, yes - although i'm honestly not sure if you really have a business case here...

I suppose you got quoted lower-mid 5-figures for the molds? Where will those be made?

[Roel]

1. If you're not going to put "Dreamcast" on them, just leave them blank.
2. €5 tops
3. None of the cases in my PAL collection ever broke, so... the price difference would have to be very small indeed.
4. Likely yes.

So basically, the same as mstar.

[Joushuu_]

I suppose you got quoted lower-mid 5-figures for the molds? Where will those be made?

Yep. Each part of the case needs its own mould and they're 10K a piece.
They'll be made in the UK. I know I can get these made cheaper in China, but I'd rather have the moulds in the UK and it'll be easier for me to oversee production. It'll also make prototyping easier.

Thanks for your thoughts and input, guys. Please keep them coming.

[mistamontiel]

Thank you!! Did not want to buy other crappy game just to use its clamshell

Those teeth to grab discs are terribad!

[mstar]

I suppose you got quoted lower-mid 5-figures for the molds? Where will those be made?

Yep. Each part of the case needs its own mould and they're 10K a piece.

Figured as much - who's going to create the CAD model for it? Is that already priced in?

They'll be made in the UK. I know I can get these made cheaper in China, but I'd rather have the moulds in the UK and it'll be easier for me to oversee production. It'll also make prototyping easier.

Understood - i was about to suggest at least getting a quote from China (not sure how to actually source a trusted mold maker there, but i know it's an option...) but i was pretty sure you at least thought about it

Sticking to the 5€ price point, you gotta sell 30000€ / 5€ = 6000 cases to break even - that sounds like a lot of cases for something that is an unproven product.

By unproven i mean how anyone can be sure that those cases really do hold up better than the originals?

Notches and hinges break, even for commercially made audio CD cases, DVD cases etc. - and even if it was the case (pun half intended) that Sega really has messed up the plastics chemistry (or their supplier, rather) - what are the chances that everyone else did too?

Another thing to think about: why, in all those years, did no one else do it?

Note that i don't want to talk you out of it, just trying to make you aware what you may be getting into (or i may actually be talking out of my ass - make up your own mind and let random strangers on the internet make up your mind for you )

[fraggle200]

to help gauge the overall time/effort/price stuff would it be worth getting in contact with some of the companies that have built their own shells for GBA's for example? I'm thinking of Retrosix as i know they state they developed their GBA shells in-house and are based in the UK. just to get a better idea of the full process and also if there's any pitfalls they've came up against or suppliers to use/avoid etc etc.

I personally don't need any Pal shells as I only want Jpn games but I wish you all the best if you can make this work.

[Joushuu_]

Figured as much - who's going to create the CAD model for it? Is that already priced in?

That's already priced in, thankfully.

Understood - i was about to suggest at least getting a quote from China (not sure how to actually source a trusted mold maker there, but i know it's an option...) but i was pretty sure you at least thought about it

Sticking to the 5€ price point, you gotta sell 30000€ / 5€ = 6000 cases to break even - that sounds like a lot of cases for something that is an unproven product.

By unproven i mean how anyone can be sure that those cases really do hold up better than the originals?

Exactly, hence why I'm diving into this straight away. I need to be certain that there's a market for these. Adding to your maths, the cost to produce each unit will roughly be between £1 to £1.20, so I would need to price these a little higher if I needed to sell 6000 units just to break even. That being said though, once I hit that mark, the moulds are paid for so I can then reduce the price.

Whether these will be better. Well, I know that using a different plastic will make these stronger, but I'm starting to lean on the idea that it isn't worth it.

Another thing to think about: why, in all those years, did no one else do it?

Note that i don't want to talk you out of it, just trying to make you aware what you may be getting into (or i may actually be talking out of my ass - make up your own mind and let random strangers on the internet make up your mind for you )

That's the big question. Why has no one else done it? With Saturn, I know there is a market there as the prices of games have gone through the roof. But with the Dreamcast, it's very uncertain as the games are still cheap enough to buy as replacement cases.

to help gauge the overall time/effort/price stuff would it be worth getting in contact with some of the companies that have built their own shells for GBA's for example? I'm thinking of Retrosix as i know they state they developed their GBA shells in-house and are based in the UK. just to get a better idea of the full process and also if there's any pitfalls they've came up against or suppliers to use/avoid etc etc.

I've already done my homework there, as I've worked for a manufacturing company in the past and have dealt with plastic suppliers before. The company I got my quotes from is one that my former company has used in the past, so I'm aware of their quality, process, and turnaround. Plus, they're a short drive away from where I currently live, which makes life easier when it comes to prototyping and fixing issues.

[Wombat]

Personally I would not pay €5,- for a replacement replica, in that case (oh no he didn't ) I rather search high and low for the cheapest original game and sacrifice the game to get the case. Around ~€2,50 I would be open to the idea of having a replica case, but only if it were looking 1:1 identical, complete with Dreamcast markings.

I think your target audience would be best fit towards indie developers/publishers, those are the ones that can push high(er) volumes. The moment there is an affordable way for them to get PAL-cases, they can offer "PAL"-editions for their games without having to go the "JoshProd"-route. That being said, what would be really cool, getting a 1:1 mold with one small alteration; change the teeth on one side into a SD-holder. So one can put their pressed disc and a SD-card together in the case. Seeing GDEMU's are taking over one GD-DRIVE at a time, and lower storage SD-cards are really cheap, we could perhaps see a SD-release of a new development housed in a beautiful blue case.

An other group who will probably be really happy with your cases would be -unfortunately- those horrid 'reproduction' sellers of bootleg games.

[Joushuu_]

I think your target audience would be best fit towards indie developers/publishers, those are the ones that can push high(er) volumes. The moment there is an affordable way for them to get PAL-cases, they can offer "PAL"-editions for their games without having to go the "JoshProd"-route. That being said, what would be really cool, getting a 1:1 mold with one small alteration; change the teeth on one side into a SD-holder. So one can put their pressed disc and a SD-card together in the case. Seeing GDEMU's are taking over one GD-DRIVE at a time, and lower storage SD-cards are really cheap, we could perhaps see a SD-release of a new development housed in a beautiful blue case.

Now, this is something that I can easily do. For the Saturn cases, there will be what's called "inserts" that can be placed into the mould to add the second disc holder. So I can do the same for the Dreamcast cases as well.