DualStick + CDZ Button DC Controls

[Roareye]

We are in dire need of a dual stick controller.

I already have a controller like this
the GameCube controller is beautiful on the Dreamcast

How did you get it to work? I can't do soldering, so is there a switchover device or something? And does it work on games like Quake III Arena and Fur Fighters to use the seconds stick for movement?

::EDIT:: Looked online. Can't find any way of doing this, so I'm guessing it's a custom mod you've done. If it is then it's not really applicable to most people. Glad you got yours working though.

[Roel]

What are the available buttons/controls available on Dreamcast - including those not compatible with the original DC controller?

Left D-pad, Right D-pad
Left Stick, Right Stick
L, R
A, B, C, D
X, Y, Z
Start

[Roareye]

What are the available buttons/controls available on Dreamcast - including those not compatible with the original DC controller?

Left D-pad, Right D-pad
Left Stick, Right Stick
L, R
A, B, C, D
X, Y, Z
Start

Jesus! Two D-Pads as well and 7 face buttons (8 including Start)? That's both fantastic and insane haha.
Is it common for consoles to have unused controls available? Does the Gamecube have 17 sticks hidden away XD

However it is awesome for us, if we can get a controller manufacturer on board, because that essentially gives us the perfect modern controller design/layout if we can assign the buttons as needed. Perhaps megavolt can share how he did so on a Gamecube pad? I'm all excited at the possibilities now haha

[Motoracer5]

Dual analog sticks would definitely be nice for some games, but for FPS I don't see how that is the big issue. A gamepad with with L1,R1,L2,R2 would have far more advantage than 2 sticks. For example, even with 2 sticks in Unreal Tournament you have to either stop aiming or stop moving to use alternate fire. ABXY is fine for movement, having to stop aiming or moving to use weapon functions is not.

So far the best solution I have found is the Brook Wingman SD. DPAD buttons can be mapped to L1,R1. So you can actually move, aim, use alt fire and switch weapons. There is a deadzone issue with the SD, but hopefully that will be addressed with firmware update

[Ragfish]

I'm not sure if this supports GC controllers but I know he has this project going on, I've been watching it for a while. https://www.dreamcast-talk.com/forum/vi ... =5&t=13058

if you do not switch the mode, the joystick in some games will be correctly detected, and in some it will be impossible to change the control settings
there is even a game in which you cannot press the start button on the title screen

What are some of the games that have problems?

[megavolt85]

I'm not sure if this supports GC controllers but I know he has this project going on, I've been watching it for a while. https://www.dreamcast-talk.com/forum/vi ... =5&t=13058

yes, the latest build has support for the GameCube controller

What are some of the games that have problems?

Toy Racer - don't work START button if enabled mode with two sticks
I don’t remember in some racing game you can’t set up the controls, because the controller is not defined either as a standard or as a racing wheel

[Roareye]

Dual analog sticks would definitely be nice for some games, but for FPS I don't see how that is the big issue. A gamepad with with L1,R1,L2,R2 would have far more advantage than 2 sticks. For example, even with 2 sticks in Unreal Tournament you have to either stop aiming or stop moving to use alternate fire. ABXY is fine for movement, having to stop aiming or moving to use weapon functions is not.

ABXY sucks for FPS movement. It's the biggest controller flaw for that genre. I will admit that includes two bumpers alongside the trigger would be a much needed addition (Kinda like the StrikerDC, but with the bumpers set to actual C and Z). If we're looking at redesigning the controller to unlock additional features, then adding a second stick and additional bumper buttons would be a no-brainer.

If we use the Xbox One layout as a base, then assigning what's on MAPLE should be relatively easy in theory (obviously the implementation would be difficult). Thumbsticks and D-Pad would be in the same layout, ABXY would remain the same. LB and RB would be MAPLE's C and Z buttons, while LT and RT will remain the same as they are. Start would remain between the D-Pad and secondary stick at the bottom (keeping an element of DC design), but there would be an additional D button added next to the ABXY buttons where the Xbox One has the MENU button currently.
A mirror of the D button on the other side (where Screenshot is on Xbox One) would be a SWAP button, that switches the D-Pad and Control Stick functions for games like Shenmue to bring the controls up to modern stick-based control without hex editing.

Using the StrikerDC as a base, this would be the look;

[Motoracer5]

Not sure on this, but I think only games with arcade stick support recognize C/Z. Otherwise they just get recognized as L/R. Might work in Quake 3, as it has proper button setup.

I used KBM until the Dreamcast was released, probably why I don't mind face button movement.

[Roareye]

Not sure on this, but I think only games with arcade stick support recognize C/Z. Otherwise they just get recognized as L/R. Might work in Quake 3, as it has proper button setup.

Most games won't recognise the second stick natively either, outside of games that use the Fishing Rod or Twin Sticks controllers. However as stated throughout the thread, there are ways to patch the games to recognise additional controls so long as the controls are supported by the MAPLE controller. Roel just stated that the following controls are supported natively by the Dreamcast;

• Left D-pad, Right D-pad
  Left Stick, Right Stick
  L, R
  A, B, C, D
  X, Y, Z
  Start

As such we can edit games such as Quake III, Fur Fighters, Unreal etc to recognise and utilise the additional controller inputs. We could theoretically do so with any game, MDK2, Ready2Rumble etc. However most games fit within the DC's controls without issue, games such as FPS and 2D fighters have too many inputs or the wrong layout required to fit with the original pad. I was most shocked to learn there was a D button and a second D-Pad. I couldn't figure out a way to incorporate a second D-Pad into the design. It could be used as an additional 4 buttons, but I think at that point we are wildly over-complicating the design. The design above would suit basically every single game.

I used KBM until the Dreamcast was released, probably why I don't mind face button movement.

Fair enough. I've always loathed Keyboard and Mouse combo. Don't get me wrong, I understand the benefit of the mouse, but have never understood the drawbacks of the keyboard. Playing games on keyboard always hurts my fingers. To each their own

[Motoracer5]

Second Dpad may have been for twins sticks, both sticks are digital.

Wonder if the firmware on the Brook adapter is hackable to see second analog stick. What you want is pretty much an Xbox controller. Would be nice to be able to use either stick to emulate dpad or face buttons as well. Pretty much stuck with southpaw unless sticks could be switched